The Business of Homes Podcast

00:00:20:08 - 00:00:41:06
Michael Conrad
Welcome back to the Business of Holmes podcast. Michael Conrad here, thank you for joining us. I am so lucky that I get to be here with great guests like today. Zach Oppenheim is with us and able to share just these amazing and interesting perspectives. Zach and I chatted about some really amazing stuff today and I'm excited for you.

00:00:41:06 - 00:00:52:18
Michael Conrad
Listen in. Come along. It feels like you are a practitioner of real estate, similar to the way a doctor practices medicine.

00:00:52:22 - 00:00:53:14
Zach Opheim
Yeah.

00:00:53:16 - 00:00:57:23
Michael Conrad
However, in reality, each realtor is their own business.

00:00:58:01 - 00:00:58:09
Zach Opheim
Yeah.

00:00:58:14 - 00:01:16:10
Michael Conrad
And some do it accidentally, some do it very much on purpose. And that is they create structure and process and method to the madness. And in doing so, they create business and to the business behind real estate is interesting.

00:01:16:14 - 00:01:42:14
Zach Opheim
That's great. I mean, everybody has a unique story and everybody is so I mean, there's so many unicorns in real estate that, like a lot of us have music industry background in Nashville, but a lot of us don't. And everybody has built their business differently because everybody has different sales, different personality traits that clients grab onto that they run with.

00:01:42:14 - 00:02:01:14
Zach Opheim
And so everybody's business looks a lot different. And it's a fascinating industry. I mean, I love business, I love economics, and I love how they all flow together, how business flows, right? That's I've always been into that in real estate. It's fascinated me because nobody runs their business the same way.

00:02:01:16 - 00:02:09:01
Michael Conrad
Yeah. And yet there are trends. Yeah, that makes sense. And there are things that if you do them, they don't make as much sense.

00:02:09:01 - 00:02:14:08
Zach Opheim
Yeah, and some things work for one person way more than some things work for somebody else.

00:02:14:10 - 00:02:16:23
Michael Conrad
What do you mean by unicorns? That's an interesting concept.

00:02:17:01 - 00:02:21:05
Zach Opheim
Oh, I think.

00:02:21:07 - 00:02:23:04
Michael Conrad
You mean Nashville locals, what.

00:02:23:07 - 00:02:47:12
Zach Opheim
They call those. Yeah, Yeah, that's true, too. Which and I will say, I know several extremely successful agents that are Nashville locals or have had a generation above them at some point be an agent as well. And so I think the longer you're in Nashville, it definitely plays a benefit into growing a business that is relationship based, how big your database is, how many people you know in your area.

00:02:47:14 - 00:03:12:06
Zach Opheim
And but I would I was maybe going to unicorns more in the line of those that do it exceptionally well. And when you hear him talk you're like, oh, you know exactly what you're talking about. And it takes a while to get there. I'm not there. I don't feel like I have my scripts down 100%. I feel like I'm good at what I do and I feel like it comes across to the client, that I'm good at what I do.

00:03:12:08 - 00:03:30:12
Zach Opheim
But I hear Amy Gill is one Lisa, you name it is one. I am very thankful and lucky to have my team lead. Darren Cunningham is one. If you get Darren in a chair and let him talk, you just know like 30 seconds in, you're like, this guy knows exactly what he's doing. And I kind of call and there's maybe not.

00:03:30:14 - 00:03:51:18
Zach Opheim
Unicorn may not be the right term, but that's what I had in my head. I was going through that. But like they have graphs, what works for them and excelled at it for ten plus years. And it shows. And I think that real estate is kind of that it makes it that interesting. Industry and writers like Lacey Newman and I'm a compass guy, right?

00:03:51:18 - 00:04:09:21
Zach Opheim
So all these Compass agents little bit and brag on them. But Lacey, her business looks completely different than theirs. Yeah, they have similar things they do for their clients and they're both extremely they're the best at what they do, but they do different things and it works for them. And that's what makes it fascinating to me. I love it.

00:04:10:01 - 00:04:43:20
Michael Conrad
So you're sort of scratching at this idea that there's a 10000 hours component to it, which I remember being new in business and being a little haunted by that looming reality of 10000 hours that, yeah, I couldn't achieve mastery until I had existed in 10000 hours. And so we talked on this podcast before about that knowledge is king And then when you don't have enough experience, there is a lot that can be overcome with knowledge.

00:04:43:20 - 00:05:14:02
Michael Conrad
And if you go out and continue to learn from others or take classes or steep yourself in different parts of the business, you can sort of gather that library of knowledge around you that can be extremely beneficial. And I don't know if it's a replacement for those 10000 hours, but if we're going to call out this sort of this mythical creature or whatever it is that you're sort of getting at, the person who almost dangerously kind of knows how to give the right answer or at least close the right answer for most topics.

00:05:14:02 - 00:05:18:08
Michael Conrad
Yeah, it's almost always it's born out of a lot of experience. Yeah.

00:05:18:13 - 00:05:42:04
Zach Opheim
And right. And that's you know, real estate is also an interesting career or line of work. If you really look at the entry to it. It's the entry is easy and relatively low for most industries and the training. Now a lot of companies around town have come a long way in that, right? I mean, I've been a parks agent in the past and village.

00:05:42:06 - 00:06:13:10
Zach Opheim
They're great at training companies, is great at training. And so and I can only speak to the offices that I've been a part of, obviously, but I know that that has been a big part. And even at the association level, that is a big benefit that I just was a part of a piece that we were. I wrote an article for the association and it was we boil it down to there's a class, an educational class that the association every day or every other day, and it's like it's anywhere between like 12 to 20 classes offered a month.

00:06:13:12 - 00:06:37:11
Zach Opheim
And a lot of that, I think, is because the the entry level to get in and get your license is relatively low and then you're going, hey, help these consumers with the most expensive purchase that they'll do in their life. And so I think it's a little bit of like if you want to bury yourself in those educational opportunities, you can get to those 10000 hours a lot faster.

00:06:37:13 - 00:06:41:11
Zach Opheim
It certainly can help you become a better agent earlier on.

00:06:41:12 - 00:07:11:13
Michael Conrad
Okay. So let's let's pause there, because I am reflecting on this interesting concept of getting in versus succeeding. Yeah. And there's the we hear this in many professions, the bar of entry is low. The bar of entry is high. You know, whatever it is, you know, if you have to go through some extensive apprenticeship for a lengthy period of time, take a lot of classes or schooling, I mean, from everything from appraisers to doctors, have a high bar.

00:07:11:17 - 00:07:19:03
Zach Opheim
And you mentioned doctors and lawyers. That's a pop in my head, right? Think about the different paths that you take to get your licenses right.

00:07:19:03 - 00:07:43:13
Michael Conrad
And appraisers is a is an interesting one because it's adjacent to us in our field where you have to spend two years with a licensed appraiser under their license before you can even get your own license. And so the bar of entry is very difficult. So contrast that, though, with success and so real estate continues to be this sort of interesting juxtaposition where the bar of entry is low.

00:07:43:18 - 00:08:12:01
Michael Conrad
Take a couple of classes, take a couple of tests, boom, you're done. Hand your license somewhere. But success, Can you be successful over time? Success really is has a time component to a to this formula. It's not just how many clients can you serve or how many dollars can you make. It's really success is probably that badge is probably earned as a time component because that experience comes also with time.

00:08:12:01 - 00:08:13:21
Michael Conrad
So there's this sort of interlink.

00:08:13:21 - 00:08:32:16
Zach Opheim
Yeah. And you can also have success in waves at different times in your career when you are better or worse at your craft brand. Right? So that's an interesting balance too. That made me think of that of like I always say, you kind of have this wave of beginner's luck when you get your real estate license. I sure did.

00:08:32:21 - 00:08:53:11
Zach Opheim
And I'm eternally grateful for it, right? Like I came from the business management world. I had some artists that I was able to help in my first year of real estate, and I was I still look back and I go, I'm so much better at my craft and so much better at handling a $1.5 million transaction from start to finish.

00:08:53:13 - 00:09:01:19
Zach Opheim
And I did one of those in month five of being licensed. I'm going, Holy crap. Thankfully everything worked out. Everything went great. Our poor.

00:09:01:19 - 00:09:04:23
Michael Conrad
Friends and family who are the guinea pigs early on in our careers.

00:09:04:23 - 00:09:21:21
Zach Opheim
Right. And that's so that but it brings in like a lot of first year agents. If they're doing it right and set it up correctly, you can get a wave of 5 to 10 transactions in that first year and make a lot of money. And it feels like I made it. I did it. And then you hit your two, three, four.

00:09:21:23 - 00:09:51:09
Zach Opheim
And for me, you're two is covered, right? So it was I had an interesting ride throughout those like beginner's luck COVID year, highest, you know appreciation in in forever and then now followed by highest interest rates in the last however many years. So it's everybody has their own ride right. And but there's that you can have success early on and then it's kind of what you do with it after that.

00:09:51:11 - 00:10:15:22
Zach Opheim
And I think that that's where a lot of the difference in agent levels of Do you go on a team, do you not? Because a lot of mentorship for new agents comes from being on a team, whatever that team structure looks like. And so it's an interesting field, right? It's that low entry, but then max exposure and it's going.

00:10:16:00 - 00:10:50:01
Zach Opheim
Do you spend it being mentor? Do you spend it on the educational center? Do you spend it Hopefully not reading articles online, right. Like everybody gathers their information in different ways. And so we have a lot of different background. And that's why I think it has been a big initiative at the association to try and standardize education, try and standardize what should our standard for being a real term mean to the consumer because a doctor has it, a lawyer has it, You have these standards that go into it and a lot of and people don't hold realtors to that same standard yet.

00:10:50:01 - 00:11:02:01
Zach Opheim
And so I think that's a big part of what I'm advocating for and doing right now is trying to get that consumer expectation of the standard higher. I think it's a big thing for realtors.

00:11:02:03 - 00:11:09:20
Michael Conrad
Yeah. So is that standardization going to raise the bar of entry and is that a good thing?

00:11:09:22 - 00:11:36:18
Zach Opheim
Yeah, I have a lot of talks about that because Right. There are a lot of varied opinions on that, I believe. Yes, I believe that it should be a little bit more of a tiered or a longer process or a little bit of more of a real life scenario. And I'm not the one that gets to come up with that process, thankfully, because I'm sure it's a big beast to tackle and change.

00:11:36:19 - 00:12:01:10
Zach Opheim
But I do feel like from the day you get your license, you're still super, super green. I was thankful enough to it worked out and now my managing broker, George Rowe, was assigned to me as my mentor and he helped me do my contracts. And we and I'm a pretty detailed X accounting person. I was like, I want to go line by line, Philip Ball by Philip Wall and have a good understanding of how this thing functions.

00:12:01:12 - 00:12:20:10
Zach Opheim
And thankfully, George is the next lawyer. And so he was like, Great, I'll help you out and do that. So but I know that not everybody is as lucky as I am to have those mentors in place. I had some great managing brokers in place since I've since I've got licensed and that can help you do things the right way.

00:12:20:11 - 00:12:35:06
Zach Opheim
And maybe it's requiring a mentorship after getting a license with your office. I don't know what the answer is yet, but I do think we need to raise that tier and I think a lot of the experienced agents out there would agree with that.

00:12:35:08 - 00:12:52:05
Michael Conrad
So our current licensing arrangements is is funny because there is a very clear differentiation between affiliate broker and broker. Mm hmm. But practically speaking, as the day to day transaction roll out, there's really not.

00:12:52:07 - 00:12:52:21
Zach Opheim
Yeah, you.

00:12:52:21 - 00:13:00:09
Michael Conrad
Could be working with a broker. And if they broker and not even know as a consumer, as to the consumer, those things really mean very little.

00:13:00:11 - 00:13:00:20
Zach Opheim
Yeah.

00:13:00:20 - 00:13:31:08
Michael Conrad
And the reasoning behind those sort of two tiered structure of licensing. Once upon a time, a long time ago is a very different set of reasons. Yeah. Then might exist now. You know, there was a very limited access to information and so broker was this concept sort of age old of let me broker the information, let me be a passer or a separator or a deliverer of information.

00:13:31:12 - 00:13:59:06
Michael Conrad
Yeah. And so these affiliate brokers existed really as almost assistant to I mean, we might almost think of it for this old idea as assistant to broker, not assistant broker, but assistant to the broker. And so now I feel like brokers have broken out and now have really a huge amount of autonomy to the extent to where, you know, your involvement with your broker could potentially be very little.

00:13:59:06 - 00:14:19:09
Michael Conrad
And some brokerages intentionally place it like that, you know, so that you can have a greater and greater amount of autonomy. And then, of course, all of the concepts of like liability and compliance and insurance, all these kind of stuff, it ultimately an end to sort of our legal and litigious age. It matters in some respects and it doesn't matter in some respects, a little gray.

00:14:19:09 - 00:14:50:12
Michael Conrad
It's a little gray. And so I'm curious to see if I think there's a lot of things that could use a reset or maybe even a relook. Yeah. In this sort of world of licensing. And I'm curious to see if there's another pathway forward to to bring up the standard because I think that's a theme that we've been hearing with a lot of guests here on the podcast that everybody wants to see the the overall bar of quality and the skills and the knowledge raised.

00:14:50:14 - 00:14:54:09
Michael Conrad
However, nobody wants to raise said bar.

00:14:54:09 - 00:14:57:17
Zach Opheim
Yeah. What are you going to do to get stand the bar entry? Yeah.

00:14:57:17 - 00:15:24:12
Michael Conrad
So I mean, that's one of the ways I used to work in a profession where there was an established compensation structure and sort of employment structure, but the skill management of said sort of employees, it was, it was in a union was poor. And so the union strength of, of how you got your work booked or like what money you made, that was all really well established and strong, which made you feel good about being in the union.

00:15:24:14 - 00:15:43:00
Michael Conrad
Yeah, but then you were standing next to people who are of a wide variety of skills and sometimes it could potentially be dangerous. Sometimes it was just kind of frustrating. Yeah. And sometimes the end user that was, you know, using our services wouldn't get as good of a job from us because X, Y, and Z people were present.

00:15:43:00 - 00:16:13:07
Michael Conrad
And so that management of skills inside of a controlled workforce, which is what a union is and sort of what licensure is on sort of the nonunion side of the world is a controlled, you know, workforce. It should have a certain amount of management of skills or bar of entry to make sure that they're up at a certain level to earn that compensation or employment structure to make sure that the end user is getting the benefit.

00:16:13:08 - 00:16:39:14
Zach Opheim
Yeah, And I will say thankfully, I will say it like that. Thankfully, as a real estate agent, especially in Nashville, we have Greater National Realtors Association that is. I mean, we're the state leader. We have a voice on a national level. They when they talk, they're heard and and that's the property rights side. That's on the educational side.

00:16:39:14 - 00:17:08:22
Zach Opheim
That's on the realtor trademark standard. You know, that's on a lot of different things. And I was in D.C. in May at the national convention, and they look to our president to kind of be one of the leaders of going, how is it going in our big metro cities that we need to lead? And that's a shout out to a lot of people at the association, the presidents that we've had over the last 5 to 10 years have changed that a lot.

00:17:09:02 - 00:17:33:14
Zach Opheim
We have, and that's the mentors and brokers that I've had in the past have all been active within the association and I've I've started to kind of picked it up. But it wasn't until last year at the Leadership Academy that I was like, everybody that's due, everybody that has a worthwhile part at the association and and is contributing at a leadership level is a mover and shaker.

00:17:33:16 - 00:18:09:02
Zach Opheim
And I was like, why is that? And then that could maybe be a whole episode to digest the association activity. But I mean, all of our future current and past presidents since I've been licensed have been huge power players with the needs within our really our field. Yeah, within our industry in the city. And so I think that our local association has garnished a lot of strength and a lot of power, and their big focus is trying to make our industry better as our body becomes better at what we do.

00:18:09:04 - 00:18:30:00
Zach Opheim
And I think that's important. And that's where I guess I have drank that Kool-Aid, right, of like, Yeah, I want to be a better agent. And I've always picked my brokers and the brokerages that I'm out of, like, who's going to help me be the best agent I can be so that it's easier for me to serve my clients and that I'm able to do the best job for them.

00:18:30:00 - 00:18:46:15
Zach Opheim
That is what should drive my business. And right. We talked about everybody does their business a bit differently. I come from the finance and accounting world that I have to be able to answer those questions and serve my clients and help them through a lot of the find out stuff. And I have to be careful of where I stop and I go.

00:18:46:15 - 00:19:00:00
Zach Opheim
You have to talk to your lender about that, and I can't answer that question because that's not my loan, you know, But that is so for me to be able to go and be like, okay, let's be an advocate for higher standards, that's an easy step for me.

00:19:00:02 - 00:19:36:23
Michael Conrad
So you're presenting a somewhat counter cultural, you know, perspective that the association is still not only relevant but necessary. Yeah, and the reason I call it countercultural and not because that's a divisive concept, but because I think sometimes we accidentally continue to move towards chaos and away from organization. And so it can feel sometimes to a regular new agent that like, why do I need to be part of this association?

00:19:37:05 - 00:20:01:14
Michael Conrad
What have they ever done for me? What are they even doing? They're just sitting there on their high horse. Guilty. These are the things and I think in a, you know, sort of a base or debased sort of mindset, we sort of don't understand what we don't understand. But we also are moving away as a society from gathering in sort of tribal groups.

00:20:01:14 - 00:20:28:20
Michael Conrad
We we've become a little bit more separated because technology connects us in other ways. And so, you know, we're not participating in the Masonic Lodge as in the Elks lodges and, you know, the fraternal organizations of yesteryear quite as much. And the associations once upon a time did that They fulfilled an extremely necessary role for us to be able to collectively create a voice, collect all of our ideas and sort of streamline them into thought leadership.

00:20:28:22 - 00:21:03:14
Michael Conrad
And so the association does sometimes feel like an antiquated concept. However, however, you are presenting an extremely robust case for saying no, there is still thought leadership that is required and there is still a framework that benefits all, even if it's an invisible benefit to a huge majority of people. And then you've made a really interesting assertion. You said all these people who are presidents, all these people who are on the board, they're these power players and let's unpack it.

00:21:03:14 - 00:21:22:15
Michael Conrad
I think I know why that is, because there is an interesting Venn diagram between not only those who are of a giver or sort of a teacher mindset might find themselves both in success and willing to volunteer and contribute to others.

00:21:22:15 - 00:21:23:03
Zach Opheim
Sure.

00:21:23:05 - 00:21:52:18
Michael Conrad
As well as those who have already found success, probably have more time in which to give. Yeah. And then hopefully their spirit is one of giving back. Yeah. And so, you know, in my own career, perhaps in yours, you know, when we're in the grind, when we're just really in the trenches, just like hammering it out, we don't have time to attend some extra meeting or think about, you know, these lofty concepts of how we're going to help the entire industry, all we can think about is the next thing in front of us, right?

00:21:52:20 - 00:22:17:13
Michael Conrad
And so as we go along and we gain some sort of hopeful momentum and experience and we get more efficient at each of the actions and maybe we build a team around us and so we can do a little less or maybe have it all be done more efficiently. We free up that time for ourselves in which to give back and hopefully we are those that want to.

00:22:17:15 - 00:22:42:05
Jake Hall
Hey everyone, it's Jake, director for the Business of Homes Podcast. I hope you have been enjoying today's episode, starting with the 10000 Hours concept getting into business versus succeeding and the importance of thought leadership. When we return, Michael and Zach dive into how the continuing growth of technology should bring us all together. Finding your focus to become a true expert and navigating the flows that real estate goes through.

00:22:42:08 - 00:23:00:23
Jake Hall
You don't want to miss it. Don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram @thebusinessofhomespod, where you can interact with us and see some great bite sized pieces from all of our episodes for you listeners out there. Did you know our entire podcast are filmed and are on our YouTube channel? Check it out next time you want to see our amazing guests tell their stories.

00:23:01:01 - 00:23:19:02
Jake Hall
And are you currently watching this episode in video format? Don't forget to follow us on your preferred audio streaming service to take us with you on the go. Lastly, do you have any feedback or want to suggest someone for the show? Email us at thebusinessofhomespodcast@gmail.com. Please enjoy the rest of today's episode with Zach Opheim.

00:23:19:02 - 00:23:26:14
Jake Hall
Let's get back to it.

00:23:26:16 - 00:23:50:04
Zach Opheim
Thinking about the presidents of the association that they they are all established and have a lengthy business life and they are all of that mindset of like I do want to give back. Whenever you end up drinking the Kool-Aid, right, that's kind of like it's up to you. But once you're in and I but I also feel like real estate as a whole.

00:23:50:06 - 00:24:11:07
Zach Opheim
We're also teaching our clients a lot of the time. We have a lot of everybody says new buyers. And so once you're able to kind of become an expert in that for your consumers, I think that it's also like I need to be able to give back to the agents that are going to come behind me. And I think that's I think that's clicked with probably our last four or five presidents.

00:24:11:07 - 00:24:17:16
Zach Opheim
And I think it's changed the mindset and kind of changed the goals of what our local association is.

00:24:17:18 - 00:24:47:11
Michael Conrad
I think a potential interesting reality is so much change has taken place over the last ten, 15 years since the Great Recession in technological involvement, different types of software, clients, access to information and the amount of change that's ahead of us. I don't I don't know how to measure it either greater or the same. But long story short, there's a lot of change that's happened to us, is happening to us and will happen to us.

00:24:47:13 - 00:25:23:01
Michael Conrad
And so if we're all this big disparate group separated, you know, and not really collecting our energies, we are not going to handle the waves and the, you know, the upheaval of change quite nearly as well as, say, an organization that's we think been thinking about this is creative plans about this is creating events where they're teaching about the changes that are coming down the line or giving safe harbor for people who are saying well my gosh I no longer can make a commission as a buyer's agent because of this crazy lawsuit thing that's happening, you know, out there we call it a banker.

00:25:23:01 - 00:25:32:16
Michael Conrad
And what do I do? Oh, TNR is putting on an event where they're discussing creative and new ways to continue to serve your clients, etc., etc.. You know, I don't know. Maybe that's the thing that will happen.

00:25:32:16 - 00:25:53:01
Zach Opheim
And so and one of my favorite quotes is, as of right now, technology is moving the fastest that it ever has, but it's also the slowest technology will ever move again. Right? It's only going to continue to go faster. And so it's like if you're not on board, you're not willing to to evolve and change and grow with that technology, you're just going to get left behind.

00:25:53:03 - 00:26:00:11
Michael Conrad
Right. So that's that's more. Isn't that Moore's Law? That was about the the processors where it's like processors are going to get twice as fast and twice as.

00:26:00:11 - 00:26:00:23
Zach Opheim
Small.

00:26:00:23 - 00:26:27:09
Michael Conrad
You know, every successive year for some version of that where there's this speeding up logarithmic, speeding up. But also going back to your who's involved in the association, that's Prieto's rule and the classic the 8020. Like yeah, there is going to always be a pretty clear definition of a top 20% or a top 10% that are not only the great practitioners or great, you know, successful sort of subset but also the great givers back.

00:26:27:10 - 00:26:52:20
Michael Conrad
Yeah. And it's a good encouragement to all of us to be that. We're almost getting into kind of a social good concept here, you know? Right. But I mean, this is how society is formed. I mean, the whole association in the industry of real estate is its own micro society. And so not only do we have to make sure that we are collecting our energies, but giving back to society maintains its health.

00:26:52:20 - 00:26:56:19
Michael Conrad
Yeah. You know, and if we pull too much away, then it, it can fall into chaos.

00:26:56:19 - 00:27:20:05
Zach Opheim
Well, I think if you pull it back kind of into the micro level too. Right. It's it goes back to the every agent has their own way of running their business And if that that may be you're a really great marketer that may be you're a really great person to person. You know, in person person you may be.

00:27:20:06 - 00:27:41:13
Zach Opheim
I'm a little bit more on that finance and I love in-person stuff, you know. Right. And I'm not I'm not doing billboards. I'm not doing the other stuff. But it goes back to the however you do that, you have to do it at a high level and you have to that is going to continue to change, whether it's marketing, whether it's in person, all of that will change.

00:27:41:13 - 00:28:05:08
Zach Opheim
And so it's I think it's a little bit more of just finding your unique craft, what works for you and becoming an expert at it. One of the lines that I will always remember from Gary Keller's Million Dollar Agent book I was reading as I was getting my license and I'm a golfer. And so the the paragraph story was, well, John never comes into the office and he's one of our top producers of the office.

00:28:05:08 - 00:28:24:19
Zach Opheim
And they're like, well, what is he doing? Monday through Friday was playing golf at his country club. He goes there every day and that's all that he does. And he's a top producer and well, he found his database. He found his, you know, clientele and he spends time with them. And that's what works for him. I haven't been able to make that successfully work for me in my business yet.

00:28:24:21 - 00:28:54:22
Zach Opheim
Shut out the Old Hickory. But that's like that is how unique the businesses can be for each agent and and it's whatever works for that specific and I think for new agents that can be a challenge in our world. Right as you want to do everything you want to do marketing to the max, you want to go out and do 50 things all at once, and then sometimes it's kind of going, let's maybe pick ten things this week and stick to those ten things and maybe do them for a month and see if they work and take it month by month.

00:28:54:22 - 00:29:21:08
Zach Opheim
So it's and I think that that's maybe where we differ from doctors and lawyers. Right. There's a pretty clear defined way this is either right or wrong. We're realtors It's like I can do a billboard and it may work and it may not. That's just my marketing, but whether and there are a lot of agents that negotiate differently, a lot of agents that go about deals and I, I love the phrase kill them with kindness.

00:29:21:08 - 00:29:37:23
Zach Opheim
I would rather if I'm doing a deal with you, I would rather be best friends with you so that we can get the best for our clients and feel good going through the you're going through the deal versus feeling like I'm a battering ram and hitting you the whole time. And there are agents out there that like that that I believe really look for that.

00:29:38:01 - 00:29:48:08
Zach Opheim
I don't understand why it does not fit my personality at all. But there are different ways of going about how you do your business throughout the entire process.

00:29:48:10 - 00:30:16:06
Michael Conrad
There's a winning. I mean, we're all subject to feeling a little bit of competition and there's a feeling misplaced, almost certainly of needing to win. You know, it's negotiating for those extra dollars off or, you know, a final word or whatever it is. So that can be that can be difficult. The association continues to come forward, though, as helping guide us in what should be.

00:30:16:06 - 00:30:45:19
Michael Conrad
So we have this whole ethics side of of the profession and who's guiding it, who's who, creating that and who's interpreting it. You know, if we're talking about negotiation techniques or like winning or who's doing what, I think that there is some sort of arbiter that needs to say, well, these are good attributes and these are bad attributes and, you know, this sort of behavior is, you know, needed or not needed or, you know, promoted or not promoted.

00:30:45:19 - 00:30:50:09
Michael Conrad
And so how have you seen the association get involved on that front?

00:30:50:09 - 00:31:13:11
Zach Opheim
Yeah. So those Right. Our guidelines come down from truck, the Tennessee Realtors commission and and then from there, I mean they're passing down almost curriculum down to the local association And so greater Nashville realtors we've got the launch program that is a three or four day it was rolled out after I was a new agent. I wish I had it.

00:31:13:13 - 00:31:39:00
Zach Opheim
So to go through a new agent and say, here are your your base guidelines, here are what really getting into the weeds of negotiation deal points, how to do the contracts, contract changes. Our contract changes almost every year little tweaks and little and it's getting better every year but it still changes. And so we have to make sure we're using this year's contract right.

00:31:39:01 - 00:32:02:21
Zach Opheim
And then they're also doing several classes and that's where it was like they have three or four classes every week at their office. And it's it's up to agents to want to do that. Right. And we have the see. So there is a little bit of that retention of like you're required to do some, you know, continue education to get your license renewed every two years and then it's up to the agent, right.

00:32:02:21 - 00:32:30:22
Zach Opheim
Of like, how do you get your Z? There are many different ways, whether you're going to the association or doing it online, I won't get into the weeds of that, but it's it's how does that look? And it's the association's job and I think that they're doing it. It's becoming more of a of of of a main topic for them and I think that's also what our association makes a priority is stemming directly from our executive board, which our agents write.

00:32:30:22 - 00:32:54:22
Zach Opheim
And that's, and we have our board of directors. And so we have a body of about 20 or 30 agents that are raising their hand and making sure that we're moving in the right direction. And I think that that body of agents, they're all the ones that we're talking about earlier that have they're wanting to give back. We are all in agreement that we are in this to make agents better for our consumers, to make our compete, our communities better.

00:32:55:02 - 00:33:30:15
Zach Opheim
It can. We continue to grow the number of agents that want to make our industry better. And how how do we continue to grow that number of agents if we can have a you know, it's the same thing for our mayor election. We get like 9% of people vote. How do we get more people to care once we get more agents to want the association to provide more, to provide more benefits and resources, then all of a sudden we're going to have more agents involved in that process and it's naturally going to get better because we have more involvement.

00:33:30:17 - 00:33:39:05
Zach Opheim
And it's it's something that has been on the top of their minds. They've grown in it. And I feel and that's that's what's drawn me in. Right. To kind of answer that.

00:33:39:05 - 00:34:11:10
Michael Conrad
This is a this is an extremely heady and complicated topic because how do you create demand? It's typically through like slow organic leadership and saying, hey, we want to teach our consumers that they need to be asking for X, Y, and Z things to be true about the professionals that they're working with, or it's compulsory. You create rules and regulations that say it has to be this way and there are pros and cons to both the compulsory method and a sort more of an organic method.

00:34:11:12 - 00:34:31:04
Michael Conrad
We have some, you know, the industries that I'm involved in also have the same problems. Should we legislate things to be true, which does feel kind of like the easier way because almost in a paternalistic way, it's like, I know what's good for the population. Yeah, but then also it's like, no, we should let the market dictate because I'm a I'm a free market capitalism, the kind of at the end of the day.

00:34:31:04 - 00:34:39:05
Michael Conrad
And so I'm like, no, let's let the consumer decide and let's encourage the consumer. And what I've learned over time is the consumer is very hard to encourage.

00:34:39:05 - 00:34:41:12
Zach Opheim
Yeah, persuasion is the right thing.

00:34:41:14 - 00:35:03:22
Michael Conrad
But if we were to say, you know, it's really ideal that, you know, folks who are selling in the greater Nashville metro area need to be working with someone who's associated with this because they're using the right contracts to negotiate techniques, the ethics, you know, and they're plugged into X, Y and Z sort of databases. So you have the maximum effect.

00:35:04:00 - 00:35:24:15
Michael Conrad
I mean, that framework feels like a really good idea. How do we make it true? There's always going to be people chewing around the edges of the of whatever industry. Yeah, sure. You are kind of one foot in, one foot out, you know. And so a lot of times people say, well, if you want to get rid of the one foot in one foot outers, then you got to raise the bar.

00:35:24:16 - 00:35:31:22
Michael Conrad
Yeah, we're back to that concept of raising the bar that it's a little bit more complicated. There's there's a reason why there's not a lot of part time lawyers running around.

00:35:31:22 - 00:35:53:06
Zach Opheim
Yeah, right. Sure. And I mean, I think. Right. I always joke, too, of like, we have lawyers and doctors. You call a doctor and they say, well, nobody answers the phone. And I'm like, Man, I wish I could run my business like that. Like, I wish I could not not, you know, do that thing. And I think so much of our business flow, it is a cyclical business, right?

00:35:53:06 - 00:36:14:11
Zach Opheim
There's no denying that. And it relies on the consumer expectations and the consumer's mindset, almost as if I kind of I always like to kind of analyze it with like the stock market, the consumers. And we're in this spot right now, right where interest rates are high. And it's it's the fear of unknown that's causing a consumer from doing anything.

00:36:14:11 - 00:36:33:00
Zach Opheim
It's not necessarily the high interest rate. We've had higher interest rates before. And that's we're seeing all those graphics and all of those memes on social media. But graphics are amazing. They used to be 17%. I'm like, yeah, it's it's a comparison, right? It's it's, it's versus what it was last year versus two years ago. And it's the consumer mindset going.

00:36:33:02 - 00:36:52:17
Zach Opheim
I don't have a clear path of where it's going to go next. And a lot of that relies on the Fed, unfortunately, and I can coach somebody through that financially as much as I want. But at the end of the day, there are you know, there are ways around things. You know, you can do your two one board, you can figure out ways to okay, if interest rates your problem, we can work on that.

00:36:52:19 - 00:37:13:03
Zach Opheim
But that doesn't always solve the whole problem of the market, right? I mean, it's not our market is slower than it has been in the last year. Year to year numbers are down because the consumer's going I don't know what's going to happen next. I don't. Interest rates, let's say they're at seven. Are they going to go down to five by the end of the year, by next summer?

00:37:13:08 - 00:37:22:11
Zach Opheim
We don't have great indicators right now. And so that's keeping a lot of that fear. And fear is what can also drive a little bit of our business. Unfortunate life.

00:37:22:13 - 00:37:37:20
Michael Conrad
But rates up, rates down. I mean, we have seen rates up, rates down over, you know, decades and decades. And so ultimately it's maybe a hot topic now and irrelevant for future listeners when they're actually catching this podcast. But yeah you know, it.

00:37:37:22 - 00:37:38:08
Zach Opheim
Is so.

00:37:38:10 - 00:38:05:13
Michael Conrad
Hopefully but it comes down to this concept of like how we practice and the volume at which we practice. And the real estate's always been sort of uniquely a low volume industry, which is really interesting because if you look at a lot of other professions, a lot of other industries, everything slowly, slowly migrates towards higher volume and thinner margins so that you manage the ups and downs.

00:38:05:13 - 00:38:22:06
Michael Conrad
Because if you have a larger sphere of influence and you're not trying to pressure anyone to buy or sell who's not already pre ready to buy or sell, sure, then a larger sphere allows you to always have some group of people that are in a buying or selling mindset.

00:38:22:08 - 00:38:23:17
Zach Opheim
Absolutely.

00:38:23:19 - 00:38:43:00
Michael Conrad
And so a low volume or low sphere, which is kind of where real estate predominately lives, you know, real transactions per year are measured in dozens, not hundreds or thousands is is a complicated place. And so it it's difficult for some people who are experiencing some of this for the first time to say, well, what do I do?

00:38:43:00 - 00:39:06:16
Michael Conrad
I need to like really farm. And it's like, well, hold on. Like, you know, are you farming? Or you're sort of convincing, you know, good thing. And so it it is it is a new complexity to the industry. But ultimately, you know, it doesn't preclude this need to educate oneself or to sort of gain certifications or experience because all of that continues to set you further and further apart.

00:39:06:17 - 00:39:20:01
Michael Conrad
Yeah, it's going back to this idea of low bar of entry, but even lower chance for success. And so those that are going to be most successful are going to have collected that. Yeah, you know, over time.

00:39:20:03 - 00:39:44:16
Zach Opheim
Yeah. I mean because I do think it ties into the everybody runs their business differently. You can be a functioning agent that makes a great living in the 500 K price point range and do the number of transactions that you need to to make the amount of money that is your happy life. Right? And then that number is going to be different for everybody on where they're at in their career as well.

00:39:44:18 - 00:40:07:01
Zach Opheim
You've got some agents that only do million dollars and above. Some of that is tied into the expertise, right, Or your price point level. But not all of it is some some I just would prefer to deal with new homebuyers. Some work on just the buying side, some work on just the selling side. But it all ties in to we still have to have those high standards.

00:40:07:01 - 00:40:18:17
Zach Opheim
We still have to work out of the same documents. We still have to hold each other accountable, that we want to do business at a level per industry, regardless of which niche you work in.

00:40:18:18 - 00:40:30:08
Michael Conrad
What's extremely difficult when you're trying to put bread and milk on the table is to focus on the value you're providing, not the dollars you're receiving and I and I am no stranger to this.

00:40:30:08 - 00:40:30:23
Zach Opheim
On a resume.

00:40:31:00 - 00:40:56:00
Michael Conrad
But it does linearly connect if you focus heavily on value that you're providing the dollars roll in in an almost sort of magical sort of way. Yeah. And that can be very complex for someone who's farming a specific sphere that's maybe low. You know, you have a low number of first time buyers under 500.

00:40:56:03 - 00:41:17:21
Zach Opheim
Those dips may come and go a little bit long. I mean, they may be more elongated than the more experienced 15 year agent that they may have a dip. But it's not you know, it's not going to. No, no, you know, no sales within a couple of months. And for a new age or new agent, that may be a long dated dip, but it's always our industry.

00:41:17:21 - 00:41:40:19
Zach Opheim
It's like I have had to mentally coach myself so many times through those moments, right through those months of like continue to focus on why you're doing what you're doing right. And, you know, it always works itself out. It always comes through if you're continuing to try to do the right thing. And that's, I think, even that mindset has what has kind of brought me into drinking the association Kool-Aid, right?

00:41:40:19 - 00:42:06:08
Zach Opheim
It's like if we are all consistently trying to get better at our craft, certainly we should be seeing those results If we're putting the work in and in due time, that will relay down to our clients that should spread and grow our referral base, that should spread and grow our business. And that's what I believe that like that should be the core of our industry, right?

00:42:06:09 - 00:42:15:17
Michael Conrad
Every decision we make that you're talking about is a bit of a gamble. There's a risk in trying to figure out how to do everything.

00:42:15:19 - 00:42:17:13
Zach Opheim
Yeah, and where do you prioritize.

00:42:17:13 - 00:42:42:14
Michael Conrad
What exactly and what you're presenting I think is a really solid idea. And that is when you begin to associate yourself with others who are maybe being successful or asking the same questions or just seeking to sort of have a higher chance for success. You are reducing risk. You are creating educated decisions that have less risk or is a better gamble.

00:42:42:14 - 00:43:18:13
Michael Conrad
And so the association then sort of as sort of a final concept is dissociation benefits us because we have a higher chance for success when we associate with one another and we collectively move through the changes of the industry in the market and we learn from those that have gone before us and who knows what might look like maybe new people getting in need to more closely associate themselves as assistants and team members on more successful agents teams to sort of make it through to a portion of time in history and market where they can exist on their own.

00:43:18:14 - 00:43:38:09
Michael Conrad
Yeah. And so the association then sort of comes all the way back around, not as an antiquated concept as we sort of move in a disparate, but perhaps it is the lifeboat and it is the lifeline in an extremely volatile and uneasy market where what's happening tomorrow? We don't know. I left my crystal ball at home.

00:43:38:10 - 00:44:00:16
Zach Opheim
Yeah, 100%. Right. I mean, that and I think that there's a level of accountability built into that, you know, that kind of topic and that mindset to right it. It's like getting a mentor as a new agent, right? It provides that accountability. You're reporting back to somebody. And in the entrepreneur mindset, we're all kind of like, I want to go do my own thing.

00:44:00:17 - 00:44:24:13
Zach Opheim
I want to, you know, be free to do whatever I want every day. And there's a little bit of an aspect to that, right? We'd all be lying if all of us agents were like, We enjoy doing what we want, you know, when we want, but we can also work whenever and wherever we want to. There's a downfall, but it's a little bit of accountability of going, okay, I need to figure out and it can be accountability to yourself.

00:44:24:18 - 00:44:51:12
Zach Opheim
It doesn't have to be accountability to somebody else either. Right? It's like, I've got to make my calls. I've got to have my relationships, I've got to foster If I don't ever talk to anybody and I just become a hermit in my house, my business isn't going to do anything right. So there's there's that level of I think accountability helps agents kind of figure out, figure out where their business lies and can kind of figure out their expert expertise in it.

00:44:51:14 - 00:45:11:12
Michael Conrad
Zach, thank you so much for being here. This has been lovely and a good, enlightening perspective to remind us that not everything that has come before should be thrown out. Sure. And we should be breaking ground with new ideas all the time. No, we can continue to revisit that which has come before us as good and valuable and helpful for our business.

00:45:11:12 - 00:45:23:20
Michael Conrad
So, yeah, I think we should have you back on. I know you have a background in the music industry and we'd love to hear some of your stories about that. So yeah, thank you for your time and.

00:45:23:22 - 00:45:24:18
Zach Opheim
Absolutely.

00:45:24:21 - 00:45:47:18
Michael Conrad
Everyone. Michael Conrad here, Business of of Homes Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us and listening in to Zach and his amazing stories perspectives. And I hope that you'll go follow him and learn a little bit from him as he continues to learn from others and let us know if you have any questions, comments or want to be on the podcast and we'll catch you next time.

00:45:47:19 - 00:46:11:18
Jake Hall
Hey everyone. Jake, again, director for the Business of Homes podcast. I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. A huge thank you to Zach Opheim for being a part of the podcast. Go follow him on Instagram @zopheim and let him know how much you enjoyed their story. Don't forget to subscribe on your preferred listening platform and make sure to follow us on Instagram as well @thebusinessofhomespod

00:46:11:20 - 00:46:21:05
Jake Hall
Do you have any feedback? Want to suggest someone for the show? Email us at thebusinessofhomespodcast@gmail.com. Thank you again for listening and we'll see you soon.