The Business of Homes Podcast

#020 Transcript

00:00:26:19 - 00:00:48:15
Michael Conrad
Good afternoon and welcome back to the Business of Homes Podcast, where we talk about that behind the scenes entrepreneurial look at the real estate business. Today I have Kaelin Evans with me. Now she is someone that we have known each other from across the room in all of the sort of the grand real estate functions that have taken place over the last ten, 12 years.

00:00:48:17 - 00:01:06:05
Michael Conrad
But we've never gotten a ton of time to hang out. And so I'm so excited that she's here today because she reached out to me. It was like, Hey, if you're telling stories, I've got stories to tell. And that's what we do here. We don't just get into the nuts and bolts, although we will have episodes of that and we don't just do interviews, though.

00:01:06:05 - 00:01:19:11
Michael Conrad
We will hear stories from some amazing people. Ultimately, we are trying to uncover those things that all of us have learned along the way in our real estate experience. And so, Kevin, thank you so much for being here.

00:01:19:12 - 00:01:24:01
Kaelin Evans
Thank you so much for having me. I mean, I did beg, but you're so gracious to let me come.

00:01:24:06 - 00:01:52:12
Michael Conrad
She's like, Please. So when we sort of look at this business and we look at all this stuff we've talked about here on the podcast previously, that it's process, it's efficiency, there's really there's so much framework behind writing contracts, showing houses this all this real estate stuff that feels fun and sexy on Instagram. There's actually a lot of like good old fashioned business practice behind it, and that's always what we're trying to figure out.

00:01:52:17 - 00:02:21:19
Michael Conrad
And you've told me some stories about how you got into the business and really learned it in a way that I think is best and that is from the ground up. You learned all the little stuff in the beginning, and you are one of the few people that is probably still rolling around that has pre-recession experience. And I think that is so important because especially today, there's a lot of newer real estate professionals that have only really sold for the last couple of years.

00:02:21:19 - 00:02:44:09
Michael Conrad
So their experience is really captured from pandemic on. But as you know, and you've seen so many cycles as I have, that there's upstairs, downstairs lofts, there's REITs. And so once you begin to collect this wide range of experience, it really deepens your ability to practice and to serve your clients. Tell me some of those early stories about pre-recession and real estate.

00:02:44:09 - 00:02:46:15
Michael Conrad
What was it like here in Nashville?

00:02:46:17 - 00:03:03:12
Kaelin Evans
my goodness. So in 2004, my dad's a chiropractor and I was at the front office and one of his patients came in and we just had it. And she was like, you need to the real estate agent. And she was like, You have to come work for me. You have to be discovered. I guess that's why I found my wings.

00:03:03:14 - 00:03:30:19
Kaelin Evans
So I started working for her right away. And that was the beginning of the Internet, which that kind of dates me. But I didn't know much about the Internet. And so she started buying all of these websites like Nashville for Foreclosure Homes, Dot net in Tennessee, foreclosures dot com, dot, beta, whatever, like all the weird ones. And we would get leads every single day for people wanting foreclosure lists.

00:03:30:21 - 00:03:39:10
Kaelin Evans
And so my job was to organize them all and call everyone and to get them even more interested and then, of course, find the foreclosures. That was easy, though, back then.

00:03:39:11 - 00:03:47:04
Michael Conrad
No, wait, hold on. This is for you're talking that there was a demand for Oreos and foreclosures even that many years before the big crash.

00:03:47:04 - 00:03:50:00
Kaelin Evans
Well, obviously before a big crash, there's stuff leading up to it.

00:03:50:00 - 00:03:51:00
Michael Conrad
It was it.

00:03:51:00 - 00:04:05:05
Kaelin Evans
Was coming way back then. And I think people knew that. And that's why so many people made so much money during the actual crash is because they kept their money and waited and they started buying foreclosures. Yeah, people made millions during that.

00:04:05:07 - 00:04:25:21
Michael Conrad
A buddy of mine a number of years ago was like, Dude, you got to have enough cash reserves so that when you do see the big dips and you feel the hurt just like everyone else does, you know, you go get those cash reserves and bye bye bye. And I'll tell you the discipline required to keep cash reserves when there's a buying frenzy or when you're on some sort of cycle of it's my turn, my turn to buy.

00:04:25:21 - 00:04:31:03
Michael Conrad
I'm ready for my next flip or whatever, and to keep those cash reserves for those rainy days. Oof, it's hard.

00:04:31:08 - 00:04:52:02
Kaelin Evans
It's very hard. And I was too young. I didn't quite understand that I should be as well buying a ton of property, helping others, helping everybody else. I didn't understand that you didn't actually need that much money to do it. Like you can leverage a lot of other things. But literally a year into being her assistant, she was like, You have to get your license.

00:04:52:02 - 00:05:10:11
Kaelin Evans
This is just you're made for this business. So I did all of the things underneath first, like, I think it's the best way to start in a company is start in the mailroom. yeah. I don't even know if they have, like, mail rooms anymore, but that's where you need to start. You need to know at the bottom how every job functions so that when you hire someone, you know, if they're going to do a good job or not.

00:05:10:13 - 00:05:13:00
Kaelin Evans
And so that's how I look at every job that I do.

00:05:13:02 - 00:05:40:17
Michael Conrad
There's a certain amount of professional empathy that's present, too, in that if, you know, I started in the world of construction and, you know, I dug ditches at 18 years old. And so, you know, knowing how to swing the hammer, dig the ditches, sort the mail, get the coffee, whatever it is, it feels hard, I would say, especially for some of what I've heard the younger generation who wants to sort of accelerate in because they have the information that there's so much great information out there and that you don't feel the need to put your time in.

00:05:40:20 - 00:05:47:19
Michael Conrad
But at least when we were coming up, there wasn't as much information out there. And so how did you get the information you put the time in?

00:05:47:19 - 00:06:03:21
Kaelin Evans
Yes, I actually want everybody to put the time in. I think it makes them a better person. I love. I said yes to everything when I was younger, and I probably still say more than I should now, but I have two kids, so I need to kind of say no more. But I wanted to try everything. Do everything.

00:06:03:23 - 00:06:21:23
Kaelin Evans
Sure. I'll go on that catering job. Sure, I'll do this. And if I had never said yes to her about like just being her assistant, I never would have understood my love for real estate. Yeah. And it's like it happened right away, too. Like, I remember, like, calling people, and they were excited, and I'm like, yeah, this is really exciting.

00:06:22:01 - 00:06:36:08
Kaelin Evans
And then my OCD was like, The contract part was just really good for that. I could keep it all organized and I mean, I can explain the contract from start to finish because I want to know what it says since they're like, What does this word means? Like.

00:06:36:09 - 00:06:38:03
Michael Conrad
But it keeps changing.

00:06:38:04 - 00:06:40:15
Kaelin Evans
Funny thing, it was nine pages, now it's 11.

00:06:40:15 - 00:06:41:15
Michael Conrad
Tar keeps changing it.

00:06:41:16 - 00:06:41:23
Kaelin Evans
Yes.

00:06:41:23 - 00:07:06:06
Michael Conrad
Or ter Harry said. And you know, you brought up an interesting concept that I've heard over the years that there's a lot of real estate agents that don't own, and there's even some that maybe probably can't explain for themselves those financial realities of how you can get out of the cycle of renting and into the cycle of ownership, which can be the first step towards real wealth generation.

00:07:06:09 - 00:07:25:04
Michael Conrad
Yes. And, you know, and security. And so it's it's a great thing to know that about yourself of like, man, I, I didn't know that. And probably motivated you to learn those phrases, those principles, those discussion points later on when you were teaching your clients to be able to teach it better.

00:07:25:06 - 00:07:44:12
Kaelin Evans
for sure. And now instead of having like when I go for my repeat clients and they're like, we're ready to buy another house or trade up, I'm like, Why don't you keep your house, keep your house rented out and then buy another one and just keep that because their interest rate is like owner occupied forever. It doesn't change just because it becomes investment.

00:07:44:12 - 00:07:51:23
Kaelin Evans
Right? And so I think I think I push that a little too much so that I don't have a lot of listings. I just have a lot of buyers. Yeah, but that's okay.

00:07:52:04 - 00:08:20:00
Michael Conrad
That is okay. And I do think one perhaps, maybe I wonder if the world is changing. I'm sure you and I probably been consuming the same social media and the same news around just the high escalating prices and how difficult that can be both for us in the real estate world but also for people that are buying. And so I've kind of gone into a mode personally with my portfolio, just like I'm going to no sell policy because I don't know where we're going to be in ten or 15 years.

00:08:20:00 - 00:08:50:02
Michael Conrad
We might reach a place more like Europe where there's just a lot more ownership that's consolidated to it and just more of a renter's culture. And I see that now, especially with younger generations. There's that sort of like vague concern or maybe even complaint that, you know, the affordability is beginning to move out of reach. Or you might say that the prices of homes are outpacing the compensation that most people can receive with a normal, you know, sort of American job.

00:08:50:02 - 00:09:01:08
Michael Conrad
And so I don't know how to reconcile this. How do I be someone who's holding but also still believe in a real estate that has to change hands and I guess everyone's in their own situation.

00:09:01:10 - 00:09:08:00
Kaelin Evans
That's an interesting outlook. Like I tell my husband all the time, like we have to buy houses for our kids or they're never going to be able to afford to live near us.

00:09:08:04 - 00:09:08:16
Michael Conrad
Yeah.

00:09:08:18 - 00:09:30:22
Kaelin Evans
Because we live in Nashville and I am going to buy a house for them just in case because I don't want them to rent forever. I know some of my clients that have been looking for a house to buy for like four or five years but renting the whole time and they're paying 23, 20, $400 a month. And I'm like, Buy crap, just buy anything, put it toward something, let it build equity.

00:09:31:00 - 00:09:48:16
Michael Conrad
So there's an interesting idea that you're uncovering here, and that is it's almost like these, I don't know, financial gurus that say, put money in an investment account for your child, and by the time your child is 18 or 22 or 60, it'll be some large amount of dollars. Okay, So let's flip the script a little bit.

00:09:48:17 - 00:10:10:04
Michael Conrad
What if we are trying to purchase a home, a condo, an apartment, something like that for our child when they're little and then we're paying the mortgage, no doubt, in such a way where, God forbid, maybe it actually by the time they're 25, it's fully paid off. But we're not giving it to the child because that might make them soft.

00:10:10:06 - 00:10:10:17
Michael Conrad
We might.

00:10:10:18 - 00:10:11:05
Kaelin Evans
Do.

00:10:11:07 - 00:10:32:23
Michael Conrad
We might then put a fictitious mortgage on it and say, okay, child, now you pay this fake mortgage and I'm the mortgage now. I'm the bank now. And so, you know, they continue to work towards something as we work towards something, but it's sort of building that family bank that they talk about in wealth generation. You know, interesting idea.

00:10:33:02 - 00:10:37:07
Kaelin Evans
They they whoever they are, they say buy, borrow, die.

00:10:37:08 - 00:10:38:19
Michael Conrad
yeah. So it steps up and.

00:10:38:19 - 00:10:44:00
Kaelin Evans
So but because you're passing it along to your children without you paying the most amount of taxes.

00:10:44:00 - 00:10:45:13
Michael Conrad
Exactly. Yeah.

00:10:45:15 - 00:10:49:06
Kaelin Evans
I am. I'm, I don't want to die but I'll buy them. Borrow?

00:10:49:08 - 00:11:14:07
Michael Conrad
Yeah. That. I mean, it's worth mentioning that concept here because it does feel a little elusive for your sort of larger audience. And that is if you're buying something at $100,000 and then 20 or 30 years later, it's worth say, $400,000, you sell it. At that point, you're going to be hit with a pretty sizable sizable, you know, capital gains tax on that.

00:11:14:07 - 00:11:39:18
Michael Conrad
However, if you die first before selling also and that 400,000 is the new zero. Right. And so it steps up in its sort of nontaxable value. I'm sure there's a better word for it. But that's. So you're future recipients. Maybe that's a spouse or maybe that's a child or a beneficiary of some sort. They now get to benefit from that new zero point It used to be 100,000 was the zero point, now 400,000.

00:11:39:19 - 00:12:04:17
Michael Conrad
And that's something that is easy to do in theory, but it's hard because I think what we're also talking about is that a lot of Americans feel like they have to go from one house to another, But financially, that may also be the necessity. It's going to be hard to dig out an additional amount of dollars for a down while still trying to manage a mortgage for the first one.

00:12:04:22 - 00:12:15:07
Michael Conrad
It does work on paper, but in reality it can be hard for some. But I imagine there's probably more of a mental block around that than there is a financial block.

00:12:15:11 - 00:12:17:17
Kaelin Evans
I think it's more of a mental block always.

00:12:17:19 - 00:12:18:13
Michael Conrad
Yeah.

00:12:18:15 - 00:12:36:23
Kaelin Evans
Because people have done it forever. Historically, there's there is evidence of making money that way. So it's just a mental as people are scared. I was scared. I didn't do it right. I wish I had done it differently. I wish I had kept all my houses instead of selling them. And I would take all the equity and I'd put it down on the new house like I wouldn't even spend a dime.

00:12:37:05 - 00:12:58:18
Kaelin Evans
But I wish I had just kept it. Maybe taken an equity line out, put it on the next house, or even now. So like, it's not a cash flow market right now unless unless you actually have cash to buy something. But it's not a cash flow market. It's an appreciation market. So even if you have to pay two or $300 more on a mortgage, having it rent it out and but you're paying more, that's like putting stuff in a savings account.

00:12:58:21 - 00:13:14:08
Kaelin Evans
And then in a couple of years they're going to be able to pay that mortgage because of rental increases, because there will always be people that are renting early. So I still think this is the best time to buy one because we're in a recession, essentially. Now, this is where all of our money needs to be put to work, right?

00:13:14:09 - 00:13:16:05
Kaelin Evans
If you still have some, it's tough.

00:13:16:05 - 00:13:45:12
Michael Conrad
I grew up in California. I remember my folks talking about that rental properties didn't make money. You know, you were lucky if they only lost a little money along the way because it was an appreciation game for sure. And of course, you know, California got spanked pretty hard back in eight, like many did. And so I do get nervous about that because for anyone that's been in real estate for the last ten or 15 years, you may have become accustomed to having those cash flow based conversations, let's buy an investment property for this reason so it can cash flow.

00:13:45:14 - 00:14:01:21
Michael Conrad
And so, yeah, it's tough. It's tough for me to wrap my mind around. There was a day in 2018, 2019 where I realized, I can't buy anymore investment properties because they don't make any more money. That was a mental block, right? You know, but that was a choice that I was sort of making at that time. And then the world turned upside down.

00:14:01:23 - 00:14:08:09
Michael Conrad
But yeah, it is a flip of the mind. You have to be conscious of that appreciation, you know, component.

00:14:08:11 - 00:14:11:15
Kaelin Evans
And how do you buy in 2018? That appreciation is.

00:14:11:15 - 00:14:12:19
Michael Conrad
Sitting here.

00:14:12:21 - 00:14:19:12
Kaelin Evans
Now. It's like, yeah, appreciation market, like everything gained 100 grand a year for two years in a row. Pretty much, yeah.

00:14:19:17 - 00:14:44:00
Michael Conrad
It's nuts. So going back to some of those early experiences, you were seeing those telltale signs of sort of reload, not relocation, but REOs and and foreclosures early on. What was it like to have that experience to go through those seven at a time where things were really starting to crumble around you?

00:14:44:06 - 00:14:59:03
Kaelin Evans
So I didn't feel it. I didn't realize it was going on. I was younger, I was in my twenties. I didn't quite understand economics as much and I was busy because I was doing foreclosures anyway, because that's what my mentor had.

00:14:59:03 - 00:14:59:19
Michael Conrad
Gone to the same.

00:15:00:01 - 00:15:11:13
Kaelin Evans
Yeah. So I was like, Why am I so busy? Why does everybody want to deal? Okay, I'll help you find a deal. And even now it's so funny, I still get calls and are like, Yeah, do you have a list of foreclosures? I'm like.

00:15:11:15 - 00:15:12:22
Michael Conrad
Yeah, that doesn't really exist right now.

00:15:13:03 - 00:15:18:14
Kaelin Evans
You need to go on the courthouse steps with a ton of cash. Have you ever been to the courthouse steps?

00:15:18:14 - 00:15:39:18
Michael Conrad
I have, so I learned about it probably on some book or podcast, you know, years ago. And the stories, the glory stories of being able to go down and buy for tax liens, you know, things, pennies on the dollar. And I remember I'll never forget I went back and this was a number of years back, probably maybe 16, and the room was full of people.

00:15:39:18 - 00:15:48:19
Michael Conrad
I was like, Well, Nashville, it's all like played out here. Everybody knows the the secret. And so guess you got to go to some small town and have it only be you.

00:15:48:21 - 00:16:08:17
Kaelin Evans
Yes, Cheatham County is good. Our used to be good for that. But even if you go to Davidson, not everybody bids on every property. no. So but you have to know every property where it is. The zip codes. That's I used to memorize the zip codes because I wanted to know like, okay, that includes the street, that includes and it's stressful.

00:16:08:17 - 00:16:16:13
Michael Conrad
Like it's happening right then and there. And if it builds up beyond your point, like, you got to have the stones to know what to do. Yeah, it's, it's, it's an interesting thing.

00:16:16:13 - 00:16:17:19
Kaelin Evans
I, I like the pressure.

00:16:17:19 - 00:16:30:05
Michael Conrad
I recommend that every real estate agent go down to one of those tax auctions and learn more about that. Just from an experience standpoint because it's so wildly different than anything else in real estate.

00:16:30:05 - 00:16:38:01
Kaelin Evans
Absolutely. Yeah. And you actually have to have cash or hard money like you can't there's there's no loaning lender, none of that.

00:16:38:03 - 00:16:47:18
Michael Conrad
Plug for our friends over at Urban Gate Capital who do great hard lending and really unique projects who are based right here in East Nashville.

00:16:47:19 - 00:16:48:11
Kaelin Evans
Right now.

00:16:48:11 - 00:17:12:02
Michael Conrad
Yeah. So after the the crash, you started to get more into that rhythm of being a buyer's agent and helping people get into homes, helping people sell homes. And then as we were talking sort of offline, you said I got to keep changing as a person. I've got to keep changing as a professional. I can't just be a one trick pony, right?

00:17:12:02 - 00:17:17:02
Michael Conrad
I got to continue to reinvent myself. What's that looked like for you over the last handful of years?

00:17:17:04 - 00:17:28:08
Kaelin Evans
So I, I had so many goals. I wanted to I wanted to be Gary Ashton, like I wanted people to put my face on a billboard, not me. Put my face on a billboard. You know, you want to have.

00:17:28:08 - 00:17:28:20
Michael Conrad
People.

00:17:29:01 - 00:17:29:11
Kaelin Evans
People.

00:17:29:12 - 00:17:30:08
Michael Conrad
Put your face on the.

00:17:30:08 - 00:17:47:07
Kaelin Evans
Like, Yeah, I love that we have to put her. She's the best real estate agent in, like Gary, I'm coming for you. So I was like, okay, build a team, but I need listings. I need to be known as, like, the listing expert. I need to find my niche. And they always say, attract your tribe, you know, like the people that want to work with you.

00:17:47:07 - 00:18:05:11
Kaelin Evans
I'm like, What do I have to offer? What makes me unique? That's why everyone asks, How are you different from every other real estate agent in Nashville? And I'm like, Well, I have red hair and I'm from Nashville, but I also know what I'm doing. There are other things, but so I tried to rebrand myself and that comes with experience.

00:18:05:11 - 00:18:30:13
Kaelin Evans
So I learn by putting myself out there by somewhat embarrassing myself. So I had a listening appointment at the house. I did all the work right. It was going to be around $4 million that we would list this the biggest listing appointment I had ever been on. Yeah. So I go there. I was not prepared for like I knew that I wasn't quite up to snuff, but I was going to act like I was.

00:18:30:15 - 00:18:48:16
Kaelin Evans
But she was like and she was awesome. She, first of all, took the time. At first she looked at my numbers and she was like, You've never sold anything in this price range. I'm like, Meet with me. Meet with me. You have to. I know what I'm doing. And she's like, okay, I mean, everybody deserves a chance. I didn't get the listing, but that's not the important thing.

00:18:48:16 - 00:19:09:22
Kaelin Evans
The important thing is that she was like, I looked at your website, it stinks. You use the brokerage website. I was like, okay, yeah, you're right, you're right. I need to elevate myself. And then she was like, And your videos that you do, they're amateur. I'm like, thanks. Try not to think. Okay, it's okay. So I hired a videographer and I'm working on that.

00:19:09:22 - 00:19:28:15
Kaelin Evans
Like everything she said, like, I couldn't I couldn't find anybody else to tell me those things like a coach. Would a coach build you up? And then they give you things to work on. But I needed some where I wanted to be. I needed them to tell me what I needed to look like. I needed to act like, Yeah, and she did it for free.

00:19:28:17 - 00:19:39:13
Kaelin Evans
And honestly, I think if I stay in touch with her, her, she'll probably list her house a little high and it won't sell. And then I'm going to come in and tell her where it should have been in the first place.

00:19:39:14 - 00:20:08:13
Michael Conrad
I love that concept that, you know, sometimes people will give you harsh criticism and might be constructive. It might be kind, but it can still feel harsh and it's free. And if we're smart, we don't need to pay for the coach or the conference or the whatever the 12 books that, you know, we can get that motivating type of, you know, form of advice, I suppose, and constructive criticism for free.

00:20:08:13 - 00:20:11:10
Michael Conrad
But we have to know what to do with it because.

00:20:11:10 - 00:20:11:22
Kaelin Evans
Exactly.

00:20:11:23 - 00:20:28:18
Michael Conrad
It's going to be easy for someone to tear you down or criticize and say, you know, you're not up to snuff or whatever it is, but what do I do with that? What am I How do I change from what I was to who I need to be in such a way where I'm going to be better next time?

00:20:28:19 - 00:20:29:02
Kaelin Evans
Exactly.

00:20:29:06 - 00:20:36:00
Michael Conrad
And so that road map of like, what do I do? You know, you're not going to always get that get that piece. They're not going to say, right, go do these things right.

00:20:36:04 - 00:20:36:12
Kaelin Evans
You know?

00:20:36:12 - 00:20:48:09
Michael Conrad
And so but I like that, you know, you can get the advice for free sometimes if you put yourself out there. Yes. If you play it safe, people are just going to, you know, tell you things that are soft on the years.

00:20:48:11 - 00:21:04:07
Kaelin Evans
people. And I don't have a lot of I don't like yes men. Like, I don't want you to tell me what I want to hear. I have lenders calling me every single day and like, you're an awesome agent and, like, you just want my business to leave me alone. Yeah, like, I want to know I want to grow.

00:21:04:09 - 00:21:24:02
Kaelin Evans
Like I want to be a better agent, a better person, mom, wife, whatever. Like, I want people to tell me what to work on. And I try not to take offense. I really do. But in business, it's easier for me not to take offense. I went on, so I had somebody call me and they were interviewing me like I thought we were going to chit chat about getting together.

00:21:24:05 - 00:21:27:08
Kaelin Evans
And she was like, I have a list of questions. And I'm like,

00:21:27:10 - 00:21:29:06
Michael Conrad
For like a potential client, right? Yeah.

00:21:29:06 - 00:21:46:05
Kaelin Evans
So she was looking for a listing agent and she was like, I have some questions. And I was like, well, go right ahead. And so we're on the phone. I'm driving home and like trying not to lose service, so not quite prepared. But she asks me all these questions and then so we, we end it. And I was like, How did I do?

00:21:46:05 - 00:22:08:04
Kaelin Evans
Like I'm and she's like, yeah, you're great. So I sent her a package and then I didn't hear from her for like a week. And so finally she'd sent me an email back and it was like, we've decided to go with somebody else. And I said, No problem. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I try to be gracious because like something, you're not the right fit for everyone.

00:22:08:05 - 00:22:24:08
Kaelin Evans
Yeah, I live in live. Exactly. And then the next morning I woke up. I love to go for a walk and listen to podcasts. I am the kind of person that buys the 12 books that I'm just the best I every. Yeah, Audible is my best friend, and I was like, I will never know why she chose someone else unless I ask.

00:22:24:12 - 00:22:41:04
Kaelin Evans
That's great. So I sent her this email and I said, I'll pay you for your feedback. Why would you go with somebody else? I was like, I'll give you $500 just for your feedback. I just want to know why you would go with someone else. I know that sounds like I can't take no for an answer. And it is true.

00:22:41:05 - 00:22:57:13
Kaelin Evans
But ten days goes by and I You know what I even said? I said, I will. I'll sell your house for free just so you can provide feedback, because I should have gotten that. She was analytical by all of her questions, but I didn't. But then I did get it later. So ten days goes by, I hear nothing.

00:22:57:13 - 00:23:16:15
Kaelin Evans
And I was like, you know, I tried. And then I got this long email from her with feedback and, you know, she said she's like, I might have decided to soon. Would you like to come and give your full listing presentation? Her listing just went live with you under my name.

00:23:16:17 - 00:23:17:13
Michael Conrad
very good.

00:23:17:14 - 00:23:36:13
Kaelin Evans
But like, she was going to work with somebody else and that is the stuff that she told me too was awesome. You really have to kind of understand who you're going to meet, like before you go on a listening point. So asking questions about them, where are they in life? What do they do for a living that helps so much?

00:23:36:15 - 00:23:57:01
Michael Conrad
Yeah, we have to remember that the interview process is a two way street every single time. If you're being hired, if you're hiring, if you're trying to select a service person, or if you are the service person trying to get selected, we're all hiring in a two way street. And we can't just have all the answers at the ready or the pretty presentation.

00:23:57:02 - 00:24:11:05
Michael Conrad
You know, we have to make sure they're a good fit for us and we're a good fit for them. That's I mean, that's a great win because ultimately that advice that hopefully ends up being free for you in that scenario, you know, probably was the greatest instructor of.

00:24:11:05 - 00:24:29:23
Kaelin Evans
All right. And you know, it was awesome is when she called me to tell me that they wanted me to list our house, she was like, And we don't want you to take a discount. Yeah. And I was like, okay, I won't everyone.

00:24:29:23 - 00:24:55:10
Jake Hall
Hey everyone, it’s Jake, director for the Business of Homes Podcast. I hope you have been enjoying today's episode, beginning with the importance of starting from the mailroom, remembering to invest into your own properties, and when to ask for feedback from your clients, even if they didn't end up working with you. When we return, Kaelin and Michael dive into understanding your own value, Their favorite learning methods and tools for altering your image.

00:24:55:12 - 00:25:14:15
Jake Hall
You don't want to miss it. Don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram @thebusinessofhomespod, where you can interact with us and see some great bite sized pieces from all of our episodes. For you listeners out there, did you know our entire podcasts are filmed and are on our YouTube channel? Check it out next time you want to see our amazing guest, tell their stories.

00:25:14:17 - 00:25:33:00
Jake Hall
And are you currently watching this episode in video format? Don't forget to follow us on your preferred audio streaming service to take us with you on the go. Lastly, do you have any feedback or want to suggest someone for the show? Email us at thebusinessofhomespodcast@gmail.com. Please enjoy the rest of today's episode with Kaelin Evans.

00:25:33:05 - 00:25:39:10
Jake Hall
Let's get back to it.

00:25:39:12 - 00:26:02:21
Michael Conrad
When we know our value, it's hard to discount, but it's hard to sometimes know your value or sometimes the value proposition is moving and changing. You know, the real estate agents of 20, 30, 40 years ago operated differently. Their value was different. You know, as we practice in business on a daily basis, the needle is moving a little bit on us and it's going to continue to move.

00:26:02:21 - 00:26:26:23
Michael Conrad
It's moved in the last three years since the pandemic has moved in the last, you know, 12 years since wait, before that where there was a major move. And so we have to continue to adjust who we are and morph and change and evolve and grow. And when we don't know exactly kind of where our biggest value is to the customer, it's easy to be like, I'll do it for free.

00:26:26:23 - 00:26:54:06
Michael Conrad
And I think a lot of agents listening here might be like, last term, I can't discount, you know. But the truth is there's another way to think about that. And that is I'm seeking out the information that I need to grow my value proposition. And so discount mounting a service that might sound like bad juju to some, but in a lot of ways it's no different than the stuff we've talked on this very same podcast with other guests about.

00:26:54:12 - 00:27:22:17
Michael Conrad
When you're new, go out and offer your, offer your services for free to a fellow agency. You can learn the business or you can learn the new skills. And so, you know, whether it's a fellow service person or whether it is, you know, a client, the discounting or offering to do things sort of more free is a way to get yourself to a place where, again, you know your value and you are really firm and it's much easier to defend that value.

00:27:22:17 - 00:27:44:04
Michael Conrad
And so, yeah, it's it's a journey through this. I don't think your story is that much different than the person who, I don't know gave away their services to a fellow agent early on so they could learn the business. You know, we learn how we learn with the experiences that we have. And if sometimes if it's not going to be through changing of money, you know, with our clients and I mean, we do it, you know, we serve for free.

00:27:44:04 - 00:28:10:14
Michael Conrad
And so that's an interesting idea. And you are smart to keep pressing because ultimately that hustle that you have that a lot of people I see have, is this sort of the fire underneath what it takes to be a real estate agent over time, not just during one period of time or one type of agent. I mean, you've heard stories that people got out of the business in eight or got out of the business in the pandemic because, you know, they didn't want to change or it was just it was their time or whatever.

00:28:10:20 - 00:28:19:18
Michael Conrad
But if we want to continue to change and be present in the real estate business, we have to continue to say, what is my value and is it defensible?

00:28:19:20 - 00:28:39:12
Kaelin Evans
Yeah, exactly. And that's actually an age old tactic. It's like a work study or apprenticeship. Yeah. I mean, I will work for free to learn something. I love to learn and I try not to think of it as me discounting because I know where my value is. But if I see an opportunity to grow like you were talking about, I'll do it for free.

00:28:39:12 - 00:28:57:19
Kaelin Evans
I jump right in and I love that. And you were talking about like people getting out the pandemic and stuff. I have I have a great partnership with this guy that has been an agent for 20 years. He had no idea what to do during the pandemic. I was like, You can't offer full price. You have to go over.

00:28:57:20 - 00:29:06:11
Kaelin Evans
He's like, What? Like, Yeah. And then take what you don't know it pass fail inspection is what are you doing? Like you, it was a completely different ballgame.

00:29:06:11 - 00:29:07:00
Michael Conrad
It was wild.

00:29:07:05 - 00:29:25:10
Kaelin Evans
Yeah. And if you hadn't been in it and like a change like in months time, so, like, if you hadn't done a deal recently, and I remember changing like, like hearing about people, like if I put an offer in and this is right after the pandemic in 2020, I put an offer and I'm like, Why did you go with someone else?

00:29:25:10 - 00:29:33:10
Kaelin Evans
We went over and they're like, Well, they had pass fail inspection. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah. And then they changed the contract to include it.

00:29:33:12 - 00:29:56:22
Michael Conrad
Yeah. So this idea that sometimes we're going to get a get to have experience on our own terms, sometimes we're going to get it accidentally through little moments of failure. Sometimes we're going to give our time away to learn something. You said, I will never not be willing to learn something, you know, like that, right? But learn something isn't just go through it.

00:29:57:01 - 00:30:35:19
Michael Conrad
Learn something is really analyze what you went through. Pluck out the moments that sort of rise to the surface and, you know, are the durable sort of nuggets, you know, that you need and reflect. I don't do enough reflection. You'll hear it here. I don't do enough personal reflection. But in those quiet moments, as you sort of go back over what you've gone through, what a situation was, who said what, how it all rolled out, you've got to be able to extract those moments of learning and then then allow that to off author the change in your practice or in your business.

00:30:35:19 - 00:30:53:22
Michael Conrad
So you hearing the moment of, it's a pass fail inspection or it's a you know, it's a change to the contract in this way. You know, you could hear that, but you have to pay attention, grab onto it and then have it change your process for it actually to make sense moving forward. I'm sort of a blow and go running gun.

00:30:53:22 - 00:30:54:20
Michael Conrad
You know, she can.

00:30:55:00 - 00:30:55:09
Kaelin Evans
Me to.

00:30:55:12 - 00:31:02:06
Michael Conrad
You know, a lot of the time. But yeah I do like to to think deep.

00:31:02:08 - 00:31:03:15
Kaelin Evans
Only during podcast.

00:31:03:15 - 00:31:22:04
Michael Conrad
Only during well honestly I would say that I probably learned the most. Speaking of learning through conversation, I'm not the person who necessarily tries to have a conversation myself or, you know, roll over the ideas by myself. I, I usually find that the learning is best experienced with someone else.

00:31:22:04 - 00:31:30:18
Kaelin Evans
Yes. And I actually like to repeat what I hear, to see how it falls on someone else. yeah. Maybe they'll add a little more to it and then it just expounds.

00:31:30:21 - 00:31:34:01
Michael Conrad
Shape it, change it, strike it down, build it up whatever.

00:31:34:01 - 00:31:38:05
Kaelin Evans
It is like to be or not to be. And then you'll say something and I'll be okay.

00:31:38:05 - 00:31:39:02
Michael Conrad
Yeah, that is the question.

00:31:39:05 - 00:31:40:02
Kaelin Evans
I see.

00:31:40:04 - 00:32:05:03
Michael Conrad
There you go. So in this constant evolution that's required of every real estate agent in today's market, right? You know, you are someone that came to me and said, Michael, I'm changing who I am. I'm taking listings and, you know, changing my practice, starting now. Talk to me about some of the other things that you're doing in your day to day routine that's helping make those changes.

00:32:05:05 - 00:32:27:11
Kaelin Evans
My whole goal was to figure out listing a house was everyone does. You have to list to last. So listing is where I want to be. But in this market, like in the market where you've listed a house and it sold with multiple offers, just the next day like that was easy to be the listing agent. You hardly did anything.

00:32:27:13 - 00:32:47:17
Kaelin Evans
A lot of people didn't even do professional photography. So now it's like, I know that to take it from 30 to 60 to 70 days on the market, I'm going to have to make it look it's best. So I am fully learned and staging and I have a staging supply. But then I also work with a staging company.

00:32:47:17 - 00:33:12:19
Kaelin Evans
Like if it's too much for me, and then I research like how fast houses that are staged sell as opposed to not stage when something goes with multiple offers. I make sure to go see that house to know why, you know, like if there's a house next door and it's one level and the kitchen's redone and it gets multiple offers and then the house next door is bigger but has a garage, and I'm like, Why didn't it get multiple offers?

00:33:12:19 - 00:33:34:14
Kaelin Evans
So I study stuff like that to figure out how to price them, because even though they're next door to one another, they're not a true comp. They're not. And other people. Yes. So a study of the market learned extra things like staging and really I'm upping my game with my website. I'm trying to look professional, you know, I mean, it's all about how you look.

00:33:34:19 - 00:33:35:08
Michael Conrad
Appearance.

00:33:35:12 - 00:34:01:21
Kaelin Evans
Appearance is everything. Yeah, well, yes. And I'm getting a logo because I feel like I mean, everyone needs a logo, but I'm working on all my collateral, too. Like, I want to look professional when I go on these appointments and have everything cohesive and beautiful from business card to brochure. So I'm a Nashville girl, so I'm just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and I want everyone to know what I do and who I am.

00:34:01:22 - 00:34:05:01
Kaelin Evans
Yeah, because this is the town that built me. Yeah, I'm here to stay.

00:34:05:02 - 00:34:05:13
Michael Conrad
It's good.

00:34:05:15 - 00:34:07:01
Kaelin Evans
Move over, Gary Ashton.

00:34:07:03 - 00:34:08:20
Michael Conrad
Yeah. Get him off that billboard.

00:34:08:20 - 00:34:20:04
Kaelin Evans
I mean, it's really given them so many plugs. They're going to be like that girl, Gary Ashton. It's amazing. Kaelin Evans, Not Gary Ashton. No, I'm going to be the best I can be.

00:34:20:06 - 00:34:21:01
Michael Conrad
That's good.

00:34:21:03 - 00:34:22:14
Kaelin Evans
What else can I do?

00:34:22:16 - 00:34:26:07
Michael Conrad
Well, I think you're setting yourself up for success. I really do. And I'm not.

00:34:26:08 - 00:34:27:04
Kaelin Evans
I didn't say failure.

00:34:27:08 - 00:34:45:04
Michael Conrad
No. And I am. I'm so glad to hear this fresh perspective of not only a Nashville native, which is always so exciting. A true unicorn, but someone who has grounded out and pushed themselves for a lot of years and seen a lot. I think that is the recipe for success. So good for you.

00:34:45:04 - 00:34:47:14
Kaelin Evans
Absolutely. Yeah. I hustle.

00:34:47:16 - 00:34:52:10
Michael Conrad
Well, we will have to have you back on at some point. Thank you. And it's been great to spend the time.

00:34:52:10 - 00:34:53:11
Kaelin Evans
Thank you so much, Michael.

00:34:53:16 - 00:35:17:23
Michael Conrad
This is Michael Conrad with the Business of Homes Podcast. It's been wonderful to be able to share Kaelin's stories with you guys today. I hope you'll stick around, hit subscribe, check us out on our YouTube channel to see what we actually look like in person or find us on your favorite place where podcasts are dropped. We'll catch you next on.

00:35:18:01 - 00:35:41:06
Jake Hall
Hey, everyone. Jake, again, director for the Business Homes podcast. I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. A huge thank you to Kaelin Evans for being a part of the podcast. Go follow her on Instagram @kaelinevans and that's k e l i n and let her know how much you enjoyed their story. Don't forget to subscribe on your preferred listening platform and make sure to follow us on Instagram as well @thebusinessofhomespod.

00:35:41:10 - 00:35:50:14
Jake Hall
Do you have any feedback or want to suggest someone for the show? Email us at thebusinessofhomespodcast@gmail.com. Thank you again for listening and we'll see you soon.