The Business of Homes Podcast

Michael Conrad
Good afternoon, everyone. Michael Conrad here with the Business of Homes podcast. Once again, I am very fortunate to be able to share more stories about amazing realtors here in middle Tennessee who are shaping how business is done. And so we're peeking behind the scenes. We're looking at the business of homes and kind of what makes real estate run.

00:00:44:09 - 00:01:10:04
Michael Conrad
At the end of the day. And so today we have Madison White, who I have known for a number of years, and we've got a chance to work together off and on during that time. And she has just an incredible, very buoyant personality, but also is great at her job and never lets details fall through the cracks. And today, I'm hoping we can dig a little bit more into her journey at Parks and what you've learned along the way and where you've been and where you've lived and all the good stuff.

00:01:10:06 - 00:01:11:02
Michael Conrad
Thanks for being here.

00:01:11:02 - 00:01:12:08
Madison White
Awesome. Thanks for having me.

00:01:12:11 - 00:01:37:00
Michael Conrad
Yeah. So one of the things that I love about this podcast and about real estate in general is there's no like natural oil job that you become a realtor after you do that job. Realtors come from all sorts of places, from bartenders to lawyers to ballerinas. I mean, who knows? And so where did you come from that led you here?

00:01:37:02 - 00:01:47:21
Madison White
Oh, I have a unique. I would say, experience in that department. I am 32 now. Am I licensed when I was 23?

00:01:47:23 - 00:01:48:12
Michael Conrad
Wow.

00:01:48:13 - 00:02:19:02
Madison White
So, you know, you graduate college when you're 21. 22. So not much. Life had happened in between graduating college in real estate. I had one job before this, and it was marketing for an organic tea company. Cool. Like, very obscure out of Louisville, Kentucky. And I worked there for maybe eight months and moved back Here was me was remotely working at the time.

00:02:19:02 - 00:02:24:19
Madison White
And then quit that job and got into real estate. So I love it. Nothing before.

00:02:24:20 - 00:02:27:18
Michael Conrad
It's such a natural place to go, right? Organic tea.

00:02:27:22 - 00:02:28:01
Madison White
To.

00:02:28:01 - 00:02:29:01
Michael Conrad
Real estate. I mean, I.

00:02:29:01 - 00:02:39:05
Madison White
Was amazed throwing out tea samples at Whole Foods and I thought, This is great. I should change two houses. Yeah, it was natural.

00:02:39:06 - 00:02:47:18
Michael Conrad
But you did get interested by some way or form or what was it that got you kind of piqued your curiosity?

00:02:47:20 - 00:03:02:05
Madison White
I feel like all parts of my life during that period of time are just pretty silly. But because I've expressed before, I'm like a pretty silly, silly person. I wasn't. Not that I don't take myself serious. I guess that's it. I don't take myself very seriously.

00:03:02:10 - 00:03:04:01
Michael Conrad
So I don't know.

00:03:04:01 - 00:03:34:11
Madison White
Actually, that's it. I think that's what it is. I was living, so when I first moved to Nashville, I was I found a house on Craigslist that had five other roommates in Cleveland Park, and I moved in and then I met my landlord maybe three days later. He also owned a house, lived with us, was my roommate. He just, like, hadn't shown up for a while and that was how I was living my twenties, which I think everybody should do.

00:03:34:11 - 00:03:55:14
Madison White
It was very fun. But he had referred a bunch of business to his realtor and she said, I'd love to give you referrals for all this. She also was not someone who was really in real estate for the money, so it felt unfair to her to make all this money off of the referrals he was sending. So I know.

00:03:55:14 - 00:04:13:15
Madison White
So he was like, I guess I'm going to get my license if you want to go to class with me. And he was in his I want to say he was in his thirties at the time. Musician I lived with a bunch of musician types. Just true like East Nashville at that time. And we thought it was hysterical.

00:04:13:17 - 00:04:19:04
Madison White
Like the the idea of us being realtors we thought was the funniest thing we could imagine.

00:04:19:06 - 00:04:20:22
Michael Conrad
A realtor was like an old stuffy person.

00:04:20:22 - 00:04:24:14
Madison White
My gosh, yeah, I'm going to get him a convertible and with my valise.

00:04:24:14 - 00:04:25:12
Michael Conrad
Here's my Sebring.

00:04:25:14 - 00:04:48:18
Madison White
Yes. So I that was really it. I thought I would be kind of interested in it, and I had no idea what to do with my life. I was I say I'm like a recovering overachiever. That's why I try not to take myself too seriously now. But at the time, I was having like a quarter life crisis. I thought at 23 I thought I was already supposed to know what I was doing.

00:04:49:00 - 00:05:15:21
Madison White
I supposed to be successful, whatever. And so I just did it based on what it was, something someone suggested. And then after I got into it, I realized I had all of these deep connections to houses My dad was like a hobbyist architect my whole life. So he is self-made and everything he does. And one of his interests happened to be architecture.

00:05:15:21 - 00:05:38:23
Madison White
He couldn't afford to take all the classes and everything that was required. So he took only what you needed to actually be able to do it and then did it for his friends in the community growing up. So I was always in construction zones because we were just popping over to so-and-so's house and he was redoing the kitchen or going to the church and he was redoing the fellowship hall or something.

00:05:39:00 - 00:05:46:20
Madison White
So it was way more part of my life than I even knew until I went to classes. But that's the long story.

00:05:46:22 - 00:06:09:11
Michael Conrad
Yeah, I think that at the end of the day, that's the sneaky interesting part about real estate is that it puts off a funny vibe of this sort of official ness. Yeah, but it has a really simple beginning. I'm not sure it's actually simple after you get in it, but for a lot of folks, I'm sure it starts very simple.

00:06:09:11 - 00:06:16:21
Michael Conrad
It did with me. There is a love of people, a love of houses, a love of connecting the dots. You know, there's sort of a.

00:06:16:23 - 00:06:18:00
Madison White
Problem solving and.

00:06:18:00 - 00:06:30:05
Michael Conrad
Yeah, conveying a person from one place to another sort of feels essentially human. And so, yeah, I think that that simplicity draws a lot of people, and I'm sure that's why it draws a lot of.

00:06:30:05 - 00:06:31:19
Madison White
People, right?

00:06:31:21 - 00:06:55:20
Michael Conrad
And so what is revealed along the way then, the complexity of it, it has to also be interesting. We also have to enjoy whether we take ourselves serious or not, because you're going to get to that one day where, yeah, those other factors don't quite measure up as much anymore. There's just too much other things that are difficult or are going on or are too busy or whatever.

00:06:55:20 - 00:07:05:16
Michael Conrad
And so what was one of those things that happened to you where you're like, Oh, this is like a real business? And I had to kind of be a little more serious, you know, about it.

00:07:05:21 - 00:07:29:12
Madison White
I like it was a novel idea idea. It was funny to imagine. And then I realized I liked it. And when I realized I liked it, I want to be really good at it. So the the thing that maybe take it more seriously, I mean, I was serious from the beginning. I had a huge fear of not being successful or failing in general, so I was not going to let that happen.

00:07:29:14 - 00:07:33:10
Madison White
So once I realized I liked it, that's why I had to take it a lot more seriously.

00:07:33:10 - 00:07:34:03
Michael Conrad
Not more serious.

00:07:34:03 - 00:07:39:16
Madison White
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Real quick. Yeah. It was terrifying. Yeah. The whole thing was very silly and terrifying.

00:07:39:18 - 00:08:01:22
Michael Conrad
I think you're tapping into something really interesting here that a lot of times in business, especially in a modern age of Instagram, we're trying to polish ourselves up so much. I certainly can be accused of that, of trying to create this perfect product, perfect service, perfect brand that the world is supposed to be attracted to because of its perfection.

00:08:02:00 - 00:08:38:20
Michael Conrad
And we've we've kind of gone past the point now in history where we know it's fake. And so for someone to be so open and wild and weird and deep and silly all at the same time, that complexity is so effectively human that I'm sure it is very attractive and is a good reminder for all of us that there is good in presenting who we've really are, because there's a lot of people that probably want to connect to that with who they really are.

00:08:38:22 - 00:09:01:00
Michael Conrad
And I think that that's really smart of you because things today, in today's day and age in 2023 are very dark and intense. And to bring a little levity is so, so important. And, you know, depending on someone's life, they may not have a ton of opportunity for that.

00:09:01:02 - 00:09:27:21
Madison White
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't even think about, I guess, how heavy other people's lives can be because I'm trying so hard to just relish in all the light. But I hope that people feel that way, that interacting with me makes them feel light and human and not like everything is so serious, even if only because it is so serious and there's nothing we can do about it.

00:09:27:23 - 00:09:43:10
Michael Conrad
Yeah, absurdist. Yes. There's an irony though, because we've all heard that like the real theater plays so many different roles where so many hats, including classically therapist, right. And all. We're always going to playing therapists to the to the buyers or the seller.

00:09:43:10 - 00:09:44:02
Madison White
Favorite one.

00:09:44:03 - 00:10:09:17
Michael Conrad
Right? But in that it requires a level of offense, authenticity that's so essential. And yet we're still the Instagram polished generation is trying desperately to make all of our reels look perfect. And so again, I got to tip my hat to you. You're very smartly fulfilling a very classic role of therapist probably to realtors are not to realtors, but to your buyers.

00:10:09:19 - 00:10:24:01
Michael Conrad
But doing it in a way where you're offering an olive branch, you know, a handout, you know, where you say, Hey, if you want to talk about the serious stuff, I got you, I got serious stuff to talk about. Yeah, but if you want to with the silly stuff when you go there to.

00:10:24:03 - 00:10:48:13
Madison White
Our I want to say our I have a partner, Courtney, who I work with. Yeah. Our presentation, like our buyer presentation we had designed to look like a gameboard. Like, as if you're playing like life or Jumanji. Yeah, like you. Even my boyfriend, I just played live, like, two nights ago. But when you play life, you choose, like, go to college or, like, get a job immediately.

00:10:48:15 - 00:10:52:04
Madison White
Like we even do like the different paths. This is like, get, get a loan.

00:10:52:04 - 00:10:53:11
Michael Conrad
But this is $1,000,000 idea.

00:10:53:12 - 00:10:54:01
Madison White
So.

00:10:54:03 - 00:10:54:21
Michael Conrad
This is great.

00:10:54:21 - 00:11:21:06
Madison White
And so I like immediately go buy a presentation. It's a fun, colorful game board that we can actually move the pieces on. And I'm gonna start the whole presentation with Jessa. You know, this is my history of wagon to real estate, but more importantly, my my history with mental illness and what you can expect from me based on the years I spent in therapy and treatment for eating disorders and what I think is appropriate to talk about.

00:11:21:08 - 00:11:47:19
Madison White
So you feel like you can be as vulnerable as you need to be to be and to end this process. Feeling happy and like proud of yourself and accomplish. It's going to cause you to have the like, widest range of emotions and it'll tap into your deep wounds and whatever. There's just no way for it not to. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars for people and where they call home.

00:11:47:19 - 00:12:08:21
Madison White
So I think those are the two of the most vulnerable things that you could be talking about. So I just start every presentation, I guess every interaction with both those things. Like the game. Yeah, yeah, here's the game board. And also I'm going to real serious for 5 minutes. Talk about, you know, like who I am as a person in my life.

00:12:08:23 - 00:12:29:07
Michael Conrad
Well, there's so much fear. There's so much fear baked into a real estate transaction. I mean, it can really start to touch some of the depths of the soul that is uncomfortable to talk about, like, where do I feel at home? Where do I feel comfortable, my place? Am I going to be financially able to accomplish this goal?

00:12:29:11 - 00:12:46:23
Michael Conrad
That, of course, plays into a level of ego for a lot of people. Am I being successful in my job or whatever? And so in my in my significant other or my family, are we on the same page about what our goals are? What does this have implication for the neighborhood we are leaving or we're going to live in it even?

00:12:47:01 - 00:13:14:13
Madison White
I mean, just the process of making this kind of decision with your significant other will bring up so many of the pain points in your relationship. Yeah, in the pain points in your own life. I mean, your relationship with home goes back to your childhood so often. The reason that's important to me to be able to talk about all of these things with people and just know that if they want to talk about it, they're more than welcome to.

00:13:14:13 - 00:13:50:07
Madison White
And it's an inviting environment for that is because it's going to help me represent them better through the negotiation process, through after the home inspection back like the things that people are afraid of on home inspection reports are often sourced back to things that have absolutely nothing to do with what's going on there. So I just try to get to know people as deeply as I can or at least let them know that that is open and I can be much better representation for them just as far as just telling them how they should handle a situation.

00:13:50:09 - 00:14:02:08
Madison White
Because I can source back, is this anxiety real? Is this anxiety more based on something totally different? What do you need to feel comfortable? I don't know. It's just so relevant. I don't know how you untangle the do.

00:14:02:13 - 00:14:23:17
Michael Conrad
Yeah, that's really interesting. You're sort of pushing an idea about an almost a psychotherapy focused the beginning of the relationship because you know that it's going to enter into places where either the conversational tools or the knowledge of past experience is going to come to bear.

00:14:23:19 - 00:14:50:10
Madison White
Yeah, it's all going to come up. So it's either going to come up in them privately in their house with their partner or by themselves. And I'm having to field all those emotions without knowing what they are and navigate them and help them make decisions. Or I can ask them to invite me into that so that I have all the information I need to be able to make those decisions with them or at least guide them through them.

00:14:50:12 - 00:14:57:13
Michael Conrad
Yeah. I mean, has someone written a book about the psychotherapy approach to real estate? Because that's just begging to be written? Holy cow.

00:14:57:14 - 00:15:17:11
Madison White
I don't know. I don't know if other people like it. I think that a lot of people don't operate the business like this because it's just not how they operate in the world, period. You a lot of people, you know, I would say, would like to avoid all of that. So most of the people I work with don't want to have these conversations with people.

00:15:17:13 - 00:15:29:08
Madison White
They don't want to get to that level with their clients or their work or things like that. You know what I mean? Yeah, It's just what feels the best to me. It feels more natural to me.

00:15:29:12 - 00:15:50:09
Michael Conrad
Well, I mean, we're back, right? It fear. But this time on the side of the professional, I fear that if I spend too much or invest too much, that it's either going to be an over expenditure or it's not going to work out for me or I fear that I can't scale my business if I spend too much, whatever that phrase means, too much, too much time with the person.

00:15:50:11 - 00:16:15:01
Michael Conrad
But yeah, I can identify a little bit with that where you know it's you want to invest, but you don't want to go too far because you know, in the back of your mind, something else is begging for your time. And so it's a really interesting idea. Heck, this whole podcast is about like trying to understand the framework in the business behind how we practice real estate and yet I hear a really beautiful truth that you're sort of presenting in.

00:16:15:01 - 00:16:33:23
Michael Conrad
That is if you spend almost an overwhelming amount of time on the human connection, on figuring out who they are as people, then a lot of other things become decisions you can make together. Instead of almost trying to pre make those decisions.

00:16:33:23 - 00:16:50:15
Madison White
That's interesting it's it's ways year for for me I, I can't operate in the other way and I don't operate any other way in any of my relationships.

00:16:50:17 - 00:17:19:03
Jake Hall
Hey, everyone, it's Jake, director for the Business of Homes Podcast. I hope you have been enjoying today's episode, starting with how Madison entered her career in real estate. She creates an environment for her clients to feel safe and how fear plays a role in both the agents and clients side of the transaction. When we return, Michael and Madison talk about identity, how success can feel like playing with fire, and how important it is to understand how you want to operate within your career and sticking to it.

00:17:19:05 - 00:17:37:19
Jake Hall
Don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram @thebusinessofhomespod, where you can interact with us and see some great bite sized pieces from all of our episodes. For you listeners out there, do you know our entire podcasts are filmed and are on our YouTube channel? Check it out next time you want to see our amazing guests tell their stories.

00:17:37:21 - 00:17:56:08
Jake Hall
And are you currently watching this episode in video format? Don't forget to follow us on your preferred audio streaming service to take us with you on the go. Lastly, do you have any feedback or one to suggest someone for the show? Email us at thebusinessofhomespodcast@gmail.com. Please enjoy the rest of today's episode with Madison White.

00:17:56:09 - 00:18:02:22
Jake Hall
Let's get back to it.

00:18:02:23 - 00:18:26:12
Michael Conrad
What is a way that you've been bringing this practice to now having a partner because she's different than you and you know, you guys may not ever do everything together nor interact with your clients in the same way. So how has that been? Good, Hard, difficult, you know, to have a partner introduced into your sphere and practice of real estate.

00:18:26:14 - 00:18:59:08
Madison White
It's been awesome. Amazing. I never thought so. I started real estate on a team and I had, I would say, a largely negative experience. I'm grateful for it, but I have no interest in ever being a team leader or anything like that. I'm not trying to scale or start a huge mega team. Nothing, not none of that. So I didn't think that I was ever going to have a partner just because I'm I know my core values are way more important to me than the business.

00:18:59:10 - 00:19:27:18
Madison White
And I don't have often interact with people who have the same core values that I do. And I can't imagine someone wanting to work with somebody who, like real estate, is their lowest priority in their personal life. Like it's my relationship, my like my primary relationship, all my other relationships, my well-being, my pets, my job. Like, you know.

00:19:27:18 - 00:19:53:07
Madison White
So that's a good order. Oh, yeah, I'm happy. But that's not typically the kind of person I would think that is going to be a great leader for our new agent who's looking to get as much experience as possible and most people, I feel like, want to grow their real estate business in a way that I don't. So I just didn't see that happening for me.

00:19:53:10 - 00:20:23:03
Madison White
But I consistently had too much business for like many years, so it made sense. And then I just started having somebody who watched my business when I was out of town and they did that enough times and we liked working together enough that we decided to work together. And shockingly, we have so much in common. So she's similar to me as far as she wants to work to be like maybe the fourth priority in her life or something.

00:20:23:05 - 00:20:32:12
Madison White
She would love to be amazing at it for the exact amount of people it takes to live a happy life. It's been really natural, believe it or not.

00:20:32:13 - 00:21:04:01
Michael Conrad
That's wonderful. I think you're starting to scratch something. We've touched on this podcast a couple of times and that is identity, identity And it's such a classic American trope that identity can be wrapped up in work and in success. And I struggle with this so deeply, and I constantly have to be reminding myself that I am not worth something only because I am successful at today's tasks or at a career of success or whatever that looks like.

00:21:04:01 - 00:21:18:01
Michael Conrad
And, you know, I, I come back time and time again. That identity is this like very difficult thing that you're constantly grappling with. And you're right, especially in a showy industry like real estate.

00:21:18:06 - 00:21:19:19
Madison White
Where there's so much money on the line.

00:21:19:19 - 00:21:38:15
Michael Conrad
Yes. And an Instagram error where we're trying everyone to tell everyone that we're being successful so we can build more. You know, it it's difficult to not say your priorities are the right ones, but actually live that your priorities are the right ones. So it's good to find a partner who's on the same page.

00:21:38:18 - 00:21:57:22
Madison White
Yeah, everything you just talked about is like a pretty it's a more eloquent way to say the things I say. Like when I say I don't take myself too seriously. I mean, I don't want to take myself too seriously, but, I mean, I want to live with this kind of priorities in my life. I want to, like, do that kind of thing.

00:21:58:00 - 00:22:11:23
Madison White
But identity in this industry gets muddy pretty quick. I think it gets I mean, I think that that's like the main issue I have with the industry and I love the industry.

00:22:12:01 - 00:22:14:15
Michael Conrad
But it's a wrestle.

00:22:14:17 - 00:22:49:17
Madison White
It's it's like playing with fire. Truly. I have a pretty unique relationship with work because I had workaholics were parents, very successful, wonderful people who I love very much. If they listen to this. But especially my mom missed a lot of my life because she was so driven and so successful and I know what it's like to be on the other end of that.

00:22:49:19 - 00:23:17:00
Madison White
I know what it costs and I just never want to be there. So for me, I have the drive and I just constantly have to keep it in check. So it can be pretty complex to know what I'm capable of and to choose to have. I'm really hoping for a mediocre life like I really am proud of it.

00:23:17:01 - 00:23:33:09
Madison White
I just I don't want to just grow for the sake of growing. I don't want to have the most business. I don't want to produce more and more every year. I just the fact that I can control not doing that I'm really proud of, it's a lot of therapy.

00:23:33:12 - 00:23:39:10
Michael Conrad
That's an incredible, very healthy European look at the world. And I love that.

00:23:39:12 - 00:24:05:09
Madison White
I feel very out of touch with American culture and this particular way. Yeah, especially real estate, hustle culture. It's that's why I thought I would never meet somebody who would want to work with because it's just so rare to feel like that in this particular industry because of everything we talked about and because it's totally commission based. So it can all go away at any time and does all the time.

00:24:05:11 - 00:24:10:11
Michael Conrad
And we can't ignore the fact that the competition, the saturation in the market is real.

00:24:10:11 - 00:24:11:03
Madison White
That's what I mean.

00:24:11:03 - 00:24:28:12
Michael Conrad
Yes, exactly. You know, the joke, the classic line, you throw a rock in your sphere of influence and, you know, three realtors, every single person does or more. And so that can be difficult because those little voices in the back of your mind that say, well, if I don't hustle, someone's going to out hustle me and.

00:24:28:13 - 00:24:29:00
Madison White
They will be.

00:24:29:02 - 00:24:31:01
Michael Conrad
True. Yes. And that's.

00:24:31:01 - 00:24:59:12
Madison White
Tough. It is. It's really complex. This entire summer, when people ask me what I've been doing, I say untangling like the rest of my identity. That was wrapped up in success that I didn't know is still there. I spent I feel like the whole summer I'm working on that emotionally to be where I am today, where I can say that I genuinely have overall peace.

00:24:59:14 - 00:25:28:08
Madison White
Like this year. People don't say this, but I'll say it or whatever. I'm I'm going to make 30% of what I made two years ago. That's insane. Yeah, that's insanely different. And I'm I'm doing the same amount of things. Could I do different things? And make up that difference? Absolutely. Could I prioritize, work over everything else and prevent that from happening?

00:25:28:12 - 00:26:00:16
Madison White
Definitely. Yeah. But that's what I mean when I'm really proud of what I'm doing by not sacrificing my mental health or my overall well-being or my relationship or my relationship with myself, because the long whatever theme for me is just I feel like the immediacy of life constantly. I don't ever want to live a day that I would be crushed if that was it.

00:26:00:17 - 00:26:21:15
Madison White
I don't ever want to have any regrets. And I think for me to be able to produce what I was producing before and this climate in this particular market, I would have to let go of some of my value system and I'm not going to do it and I'm still going to feel really good about myself. So I don't know.

00:26:21:19 - 00:27:00:23
Michael Conrad
I love that you're sharing this and all I'll share in kind. I appreciate your confessional attitude. I, I have seen and I'm sure you have felt the market is changing constantly, certainly over time. But there's been a pretty big shift over the last handful of years and it is asking us to operate different differently as business people and I, our company, our companies were down 40% year over year last year and that was a massive ego hit after finding relatively up into the right success for, you know, over ten years.

00:27:01:01 - 00:27:21:08
Michael Conrad
Yeah. Have sort of a crashing down while trying to hold on to the things that are important to family and time and self and balance these sorts of things. And of course there is no balance. There's only just, you know, trying to make it through the day. But that has been hard. And, you know, this summer I was on my own little journey trying to figure out, well, what are the important things?

00:27:21:08 - 00:27:36:07
Michael Conrad
And it's really cool to kind of come out the other side and be like, I think I know what the important things are, and I think I'm kind of being cool with maybe less is more or whatever. You know, it's almost it's like a Zen thing where I feel pretty Zen.

00:27:36:07 - 00:27:39:10
Madison White
Yeah, where someone who's mentally ill, I feel pretty Zen.

00:27:39:11 - 00:28:00:15
Michael Conrad
Well, Zen is this idea that you aren't ignoring whatever problem is in front of you or roadblock or difficulty, but you're acknowledged owning and allowing it to sort of pass through you, you know, or pass around you or whatever. And so sometimes the what the market's asking us to do or perform differently or operate differently because the world's changing around us, you know, is is too much.

00:28:00:15 - 00:28:11:04
Michael Conrad
And for you to know that, I mean, gosh, it's only good for your mental health. It's probably attractive to a certain group of folks that end up becoming clients. So, I mean, it's very similar for.

00:28:11:04 - 00:28:31:14
Madison White
My clients I like working with anyway. Yeah, that's I guess what it comes down to is as you can tell, I'm sure from this interview, if you didn't know me already, it's just like my whole self all the time. That's all I got. I don't I can't work with people who I don't relate to, who don't have a similar value system, who want me to operate.

00:28:31:14 - 00:28:41:15
Madison White
Maybe more is like the classic realtor personality. You would think, Oh, that's very corporate or or convertibles, more convertibles. I don't have any convertible.

00:28:41:15 - 00:28:44:19
Michael Conrad
Xerox convertibles and.

00:28:44:21 - 00:29:03:16
Madison White
Things like that. I'm just not going to be the right fit for so many people. And I could be putting an effort in right now to make myself marketable to those people and come up with the business to bridge this gap. And I know I will be miserable, so I'm just not going to do it. And we're going to ride this wave.

00:29:03:19 - 00:29:30:10
Michael Conrad
Yeah, I have been trying to figure out how do we pursue a lot of business, but also get to the place where you are, where you're saying, I think I know myself and how I want to operate. And it's these things are in tension. It's a bit of a tug of war. And when you have folks that are on your team or with you, sometimes those can be hard decisions.

00:29:30:10 - 00:29:40:00
Michael Conrad
You know, figuring out is this push and pull going to put maybe not me at Jeopardy, but maybe someone else at Jeopardy. And so, yeah, a team is a is a tricky structure.

00:29:40:02 - 00:30:06:06
Madison White
We have a very different team structure in general. Yeah. So I was very much to give you background on. I just keep saying mental illness. I have ADHD, I have anxiety and depression and PMDD, which is a very specific form of depression that happens cyclical every single month. So whenever I somebody wanted to work with me, I as a team level, I can't be responsible for you because there are periods of time.

00:30:06:06 - 00:30:32:07
Madison White
I can't be responsible for anything outside of taking care of myself. And I'm just going to be like barely cutting it. So I can't during that period of time feel the weight of like your livelihood. I just can't do that to myself. So I don't feel any type of way about the team aspect as far as that goes, because it's we're not set up that way.

00:30:32:12 - 00:31:00:08
Madison White
It's we're just not sure. I mean, yeah, I don't we don't need to get to really specifics, I guess, because these aren't realtors necessarily listening. But yeah, my Cortney is my partner and we will transition into being full blown partners at some point. She had only been in the business for two years, or maybe three, but when we first started working together, But the goal was for her to be able to have maternity leave, which we were able to do last year.

00:31:00:14 - 00:31:12:13
Madison White
And yes, and my goal in the future is to have kids and prioritize them first in the same way I am now. And we're just going to keep juggling the ball together so we can both stay in balance.

00:31:12:19 - 00:31:43:06
Michael Conrad
We've talked about teams on this podcast in a couple of different sort of forms and shapes, and I think it's a great counter perspective to remind everyone listening here and ourselves that there are hard and difficult and sometimes unfun parts of a team and that weight that you're talking about, weight of responsibility, it weighs heavy and it can bust up the happy feelings, it can bust up flow and efficiency.

00:31:43:08 - 00:31:53:22
Michael Conrad
And so knowing kind of what you're interested in, what is best for your sphere of influence or your family or your life or your mental health, it can be really helpful to have that compass bearing first.

00:31:54:01 - 00:31:55:01
Madison White
That's all we have.

00:31:55:01 - 00:32:16:23
Michael Conrad
Right before we go into the team. And so I'm hearing more and more about teams that look more like partnerships, you know, maybe a two, maybe a three, but a level footing where there is a a push, a pull, a give, a take, a helping, you're going to be out Sometimes I'm going to be out. Sometimes we're kind of almost operating as like a super one person.

00:32:16:23 - 00:32:17:07
Madison White
Yes.

00:32:17:07 - 00:32:37:14
Michael Conrad
Rather than two people. And I think that's a really interesting concept going into this next chapter, whatever that is, of real estate, where we've kind of seen a little bit of all of it. We've seen solo lone wolf operators, we've seen big teams. And so this and it's not a new concept, but these are equal footed partnerships where there's like a real get down to the brass tacks.

00:32:37:19 - 00:32:53:16
Michael Conrad
We're sharing every commission, we're sharing every expense, and we're not really trying to worry too much about, Hey, are you producing enough to hit your quota or whatever? I don't even know. And so it's a really interesting concept because it feels kind of like the best of all the worlds where you get to operate like a super person.

00:32:53:16 - 00:33:21:00
Madison White
Yeah, yeah. It our relationship stemmed from I fell in love and that what happened to me is what happened to every realtor, which is they go on their first vacation with their new partner and it does not go well. And that happened to me like six months in, and it was very clear that my partner was not going to be okay with me working on vacation.

00:33:21:02 - 00:33:39:08
Madison White
And he's right. I shouldn't be working on vacation. So before we took another vacation, I had Courtney debriefed on all of my clients, all of my email access, all of my, you know, like document things, everything. And I've never worked on a vacation since then.

00:33:39:10 - 00:33:41:06
Michael Conrad
Work session. Yeah.

00:33:41:08 - 00:33:52:07
Madison White
The thing that's popular meme for realtors is you're you're not on a vacation if your whole family isn't mad at you. Yeah. Yeah. Like you didn't take a vacation. You didn't go.

00:33:52:10 - 00:33:54:08
Michael Conrad
If you bring your laptop, you're not really on vacation.

00:33:54:08 - 00:34:17:05
Madison White
Yeah, well, and that's like, the thing is, like, you have to, because you never know when reality is going to happen. So we our whole relationship is just born from that. So when she went on maternity leave, I took over all her clients, all her business, everything she like truly was off. And that is the bare minimum, in my opinion, of how we should be living.

00:34:17:11 - 00:34:22:17
Madison White
So even if not normal, it's definitely what's right.

00:34:22:19 - 00:34:33:07
Michael Conrad
The 24 seven nature of real estate does not help anyone, anyone's mental health long term. And so wellness, it is pretty soon.

00:34:33:07 - 00:34:33:15
Madison White
Yeah.

00:34:33:15 - 00:34:48:05
Michael Conrad
And I'll tell you, I'm someone who has experienced that. If you try to erect sort of fences and barriers around a personal life that it you are not treated positively for doing that. And so by.

00:34:48:05 - 00:34:49:07
Madison White
Certain people.

00:34:49:07 - 00:34:51:06
Michael Conrad
Know there's all sorts of types.

00:34:51:06 - 00:34:55:09
Madison White
And that's I mean, not everyone would feel that way, but a lot of people.

00:34:55:09 - 00:35:14:16
Michael Conrad
What I think the tide is changing, whereas you know, maybe ten years ago that was kind of seen as like a funny thing if you call, you know, a real estate agent and they say, Oh, I'm not available after six or whatever that would be weird. Ten years ago now I'm hearing it more and more where people are putting in office hours or something like that.

00:35:14:20 - 00:35:27:11
Michael Conrad
Sure, maybe they're working a little bit at home to make sure that things you know, gets, you know, tied up or whatever. But they're putting barriers in place to maintain sustainability and mental health and all these things that.

00:35:27:17 - 00:35:34:20
Madison White
It's not sustainable otherwise, exactly where it is in your relationships won't be it it you can't do both. Yeah.

00:35:35:00 - 00:36:08:02
Michael Conrad
And and honestly I think that was the argument for building a team to start with was that, oh, I need the redundancy to make sure that if I'm off or unavailable, that there's someone in my larger team that's supporting. But we know that teams can be complex and are not always financially beneficial for all parties equally. Right. And so again, I'll come back around to this partnership concept, this like even footed even, you know, sharing sort of base partnership can be sounds to me like a really good thing for a lot of folks.

00:36:08:06 - 00:36:19:01
Madison White
Yeah, that's where we're going to go. We are not that far off now, but that's that's the goal for sure. You have to wait till your production is like pretty similar.

00:36:19:01 - 00:36:19:13
Michael Conrad
Yeah, there's nuts and.

00:36:19:13 - 00:36:32:21
Madison White
Bolts to be able to do that. But yeah, I mean, I will count myself lucky for. However many days or months or years that I'm able to rope Courtney into this. Yeah, it makes my life so much better.

00:36:32:21 - 00:36:34:01
Michael Conrad
Just this morning, if you're listening.

00:36:34:01 - 00:36:56:00
Madison White
Yeah. Just to have someone else that feels the way I feel about my client. I mean, I don't know. When I go out of town, she always get somebody under contract. And then those people and the things I love about them, the things I care about, their stories. Someone else loves and cares and knows the story too.

00:36:56:02 - 00:37:20:19
Michael Conrad
You know, again, you're right back at identity and this sort of essentially human thing that's in all of us. And it's a desire for connection that's out. Yeah. And real estate can be a real battle sword and shield in hand sometimes where it feels like it's a real Mexican standoff where I'm mixing metaphors. I guess you have a gun and a is going to survive, I don't know, a sword and shield or something like that where it feels like you kind of have to go to battle every day.

00:37:21:00 - 00:37:39:05
Michael Conrad
You're either warring with a client that maybe doesn't, you know, listen or you're maybe worn with an agent across the aisle that's not operating in the way that you think they should operate. Or maybe you're fighting it out for that listing or fighting it out for that buyer or whatever is. There's plenty of competition where we feel like we have no one to trust.

00:37:39:07 - 00:38:03:07
Michael Conrad
And that deep desire to identify with someone and they can identify with you means my identity is not alone, my identity is togetherness. And so we need that. And it can be so difficult to say if anybody ever watched the game of Survivor on the TV where a player is very powerful because there's two people watching each other's backs rather than having to keep track of.

00:38:03:07 - 00:38:04:07
Madison White
Everything, even by yourself.

00:38:04:12 - 00:38:25:12
Michael Conrad
And everyone's on their own. And so it's an essential piece to making sense of your real estate practice and your business is to make sure that your identity is in a good and rooted place and not just wildly askew, which again, I can totally identify with that sometimes just feels like it's you against the world.

00:38:25:14 - 00:38:27:11
Madison White
Mm hmm. I don't like that feeling.

00:38:27:12 - 00:38:30:12
Michael Conrad
Oh, I know. It's terrible. It's hollow and lonely.

00:38:30:12 - 00:38:31:17
Madison White
Mm.

00:38:31:19 - 00:39:02:06
Michael Conrad
But real estate gives us an opportunity each and every day to connect with new people, which, if you're an optimist like me, is a new friend waiting to happen, you know? And you never know when the next partnership or incidental partnership, you know, or just good relationship is going to form. One of the reasons I keep coming back to the table year after year in real estate, despite all the difficulties in being in business, is that there's always new people to interact with and in that new relationships to benefit from.

00:39:02:08 - 00:39:25:12
Madison White
Absolutely. That's the whole the thing that got me. I mean, houses are cool, but I mean, they could just fall over. It's just they're not forever. It's not permanent. It's it's just about people. I always thought that I was going to only be able to be in nonprofits, to be happy because I just can't care about things that don't matter.

00:39:25:13 - 00:39:54:19
Madison White
I just because, again, because my formative years, I'm very conscious of how brief life can be and I can't get behind caring about organic tea. It's just not that important. Houses are almost that important. I mean, it's like almost that big of a deal, but not really. But people and like making sure they have a place to be home where they can just be be just be themselves.

00:39:54:19 - 00:40:04:18
Madison White
Feel. Yeah. Hope, feel comfort, start their new families, bring their parents here. There's so much happening that really feels like it matters.

00:40:04:20 - 00:40:28:03
Michael Conrad
Yeah, that is I mean, to bring it full circle. That's what this is about. This is the it's the business of Homes podcast, but it's the people in the Business of Homes podcast. Madison, thank you so much. This has been lovely and thanks for going deep. I think it's where we all need to spend a little bit more time and it's uncomfortable and it's difficult.

00:40:28:04 - 00:40:29:13
Michael Conrad
And thanks for going there with me today.

00:40:29:18 - 00:40:31:01
Madison White
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

00:40:31:04 - 00:40:46:23
Michael Conrad
All right, everyone, thanks for listening. The Business of Homes podcast. I hope that you will smash that subscribe button so you can continue to listen to these great stories that we're bringing you twice a month. And I hope that you'll check us out on YouTube and all the social media platforms that you're currently subscribed to and let us know.

00:40:47:01 - 00:40:56:09
Michael Conrad
Do you know someone who wants be on the podcast? Do you want to come on the podcast? We'd love to hear from you. So next time.

00:40:56:11 - 00:41:19:19
Jake Hall
Everyone, Jake again, director for the Business of Homes podcast, I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. A huge thank you to Madison White for being a part of the podcast. Go follow her on Instagram @homesbymadison and let her know how much you enjoyed her story. Don't forget to subscribe on your preferred listening platform and make sure to follow us on Instagram as well @thebusinessofhomespod

00:41:19:21 - 00:41:30:02
Jake Hall
Do you have any feedback or want to suggest someone for the show? Email at thebusinessofhomespodcast@gmail.com. Thank you again for listening and we'll see you soon.